Just got a new camera - Sony F35

yachacha said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PMW-F65-CineAlta-4K-Camera-Head-with-SR-R4-Sony-PMW-F55-/181734288675?

Let's see what the "street value" of a F65 really is.

It's incredible. If you look at how an Arri Alexa can hold a resale value 35-45k easily. How on earth has the F65 dropped so far in value. Perhaps a year or so we will see the 10k F65. A few years after that, we could see the value of the F65 dip below the F35. The F35 is older but there are far fewer in the world. I purchased my F35 over 2 years ago for 7k, I predict I could get at least 5 for it today. The price drop of the F35 will level out while the F65 is going to continue at this incredible rate.
Click to expand...

You have to be careful assessing value in this way. For one, an eBay auction is a poor way to sell a high ticket item like this if you're looking for top dollar - there are only a limited number of potential buyers any given week who can afford to drop $20k+. So, you have have 50 people watching the auction wishing they could bid, and only five people who actually bid, and three of those may be resellers, who drop out as soon they don't see enough profit in flipping it. Of the two remaining, at least one has a hard cap he or she can't go over...

But, looking at the Alexas, you have to be careful over valuing as well. I think, if anything, we're nearly at the point where the older Alexas will take a deep dive in value. The listed prices are still $35k+ because that's what they want for these things, but whether it's listed on eBay or through professional consignment or even Reduser or our marketplace... but you'll rarely know how much less it actually sells for than asking. The seller doesn't want to tell you, the consignment broker sure as hell doesn't want anyone to know how little they're really going for, etc, etc.

But my reasoning on Alexa is this: Arri is now releasing the SXT with 4k support. Now, we can quibble over how that's a cheat, but if it's a cheat that buying agents like Netflix accept, then it's a slam dunk for DPs that want to shoot Alexa and have to conform to new distribution guidelines. And since Alexas are the domain of high end work - if all the high end work demands the 4k sticker on the side, all the old cameras are sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I'm already seeing more concurrent Alexa listings, one broker has 10+ used Alexas on his website. You can ask $35k all day long, but if no one buys it at that price, it's not really worth that much.

I certainly wouldn't advise buying an older Alexa today expecting to flip it for $35k.
 
^^^ This.

Also there are a lot of shows which used to use the ALEXA for a lot, then an EPIC when they simply couldn't due to packaging constraints. The new ALEXA Mini solves that problem.

A lot of people with ALEXA Ms are very upset about that one!
 
Also, while it may be against eBay rules, let's be candid about how frequently eBay is used as a classified listing to find high ticket items and ultimately buy them directly, cutting eBay out of the loop. Take a $35k item. It's going to rack up $750 in eBay fees and about $1050 in Paypal fees. Practically speaking, by contacting the seller directly you can take nearly $2000 off without them losing a dime by using a bank wire. That's before you negotiate on the price proper. You see multiple Alexa's listed on eBay, but if you look for sold listings I only saw the Alexa HD units selling for something under $24,500 - because a best offer was accepted. Mind you, the Alexa HD is locked at 1080p.
 
By the way, just did a quick search of seven site - 6 brokers plus eBay, and I found listings for 40+ used Alexas currently available for sale with prices ranging from $24,500 to $72k+. One site had at least 18 different used Alexas listed. Now, keep in mind, not all brokers are exclusive, so there might be a couple repeats there, but that was a quick search, and didn't include other important sites like RedUser and tvBay. So, there is a glut of available cameras. As more of the new Alexas get pumped out, expect prices to drop dramatically. The under $20k Alexa is coming, and the sub $10k Alexa deal won't be too far behind.
 
The problem with the Alexa is the same one the F35 had - it's numbers will become objectionable long before its picture does.
 
yachacha said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PMW-F65-CineAlta-4K-Camera-Head-with-SR-R4-Sony-PMW-F55-/181734288675?

Let's see what the "street value" of a F65 really is.

It's incredible. If you look at how an Arri Alexa can hold a resale value 35-45k easily. How on earth has the F65 dropped so far in value. Perhaps a year or so we will see the 10k F65. A few years after that, we could see the value of the F65 dip below the F35. The F35 is older but there are far fewer in the world. I purchased my F35 over 2 years ago for 7k, I predict I could get at least 5 for it today. The price drop of the F35 will level out while the F65 is going to continue at this incredible rate.
Click to expand...

What happen to the F65 sale???
 
Like they said, it was probably a way to find a buyer and then cancel the auction. The eBay fee of a $20,000 is quite a bit.

We have seen quite a few F35's. JMtheDP made the jump to F65. The F9000PL has made an appearance. Does anyone have hands on experience or know someone with a F23? About a year ago a F23 was sold with a lens for 10k on eBay, this is the only one I have ever see for sale in the last few years. Perhaps most were upgraded to F35's. I still find the F23 very intriguing, There are 25x and 42x zoom lenses that cover these formats which would be great for things like sports and nature. Not to mention the ability to have lightweight zoom lenses with servo zoom without breaking the bank on a Cabrio, which is only a 5x zoom.

I know the F35 is far more cinematic because it is a single super 35mm sized chip. The 2/3 format offers something different I would love to see what characteristics the F23 and F35 share, and how they react differently. Or is the F23 share the same tech as other Sony 2/3 cameras at the time and there is really no benefit to trying to find this rare camera?
 
I keep trying to buy an F23, as I have access to some extremely tasty 2/3" glass. I was going to make a "student" kit from it.

Sadly all the people with one seem to think they are worth way, way more than they are.
 
The F23 had what was likely the finest 3-chip sensor block ever made. I have not tested the Varican 2/3" sensor head, so that may be the only competition at this level.

3-chip sensor blocks always suffer from alignment issues. When the chips are only 2/3" size (11mm diagonal), it is a matter of microns to align them to one another perfectly and cement them to the prism black. If there is any discrepancy up/down, left/right or rotationally the result is that the center may be sharp but as you get out to the corners there is significant loss in resolving power before a lens is ever involved. The prism block on the F23 was built to a hyper-critical standard, a standard so high that Sony actually chose to replace the first few manufactured with new ones at no cost to the owners just to make sure the standard was kept up to snuff. When a prism block can account for as much as 1/2 the value of a camera that's a big deal.

There were far fewer F23 cameras ever manufactured compared to F35s. The ones still in operation are used for very specific work and the owners in general have little incentive to part with them.
 
Random picture of the day:

EXM_D018_02918-2-2_rgb_2040.0.jpg
 
With all my respect because making movies is not easy, Red Tails looks like a very expensive TV movie for some reason. Or a nice intro to a videogame...
 
I've not seen it, but at a guess... heavy use of CGI? It is a Lucas film... Maybe a TV director? (According to IMDB, the director's CV is mostly TV)

Also, Leteeci - I don't know of any project which shot anamorphic on the F35. Nearly everything was spherical.

According to IMDB - not always a reliable source - the shoot used Master Primes and Angenieux Optimo zooms.
 
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