Just got a new camera - Sony F35

_Steven_ said:
Who is making the first side by side image comparison f35 vs. Black Magic 4.6K sensor?
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Hopefully, Kholi, Mac and I can attempt something.

Although Mac, Matt Uhry and my test last year of the GH4 vs the F35 seemed to upset a lot of people. A LOT of folks were pretty insulting about us and our methodology when the F35 wiped the floor with the GH4 in certain aspects!

Anyway, I just did a 7-day shoot with Mac with the F35... he worked wonders with it. Great camera!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I've been looking to buy a 2nd F35 body and noticed they are disappearing from Ebay. The 9000PL's that were out there too were sold, I was talking with the seller. Perhaps the new surge of F35 footage onto the web has brought the camera back into vogue.
 
so with this camera - you can only get out a 1080p signal right - you can't get uncompressed out of it - you are trapped to using it's onboard recorder?
 
Unlike the f35, Sony has not deserted the f65 just yet. Perhaps if enough people start asking for 4k monitoring they will add it. Real question is, is it a hardware limitation.
 
yachacha said:
Unlike the f35, Sony has not deserted the f65 just yet. Perhaps if enough people start asking for 4k monitoring they will add it. Real question is, is it a hardware limitation.
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There was an experimental box built at one time by Sony, and it did work. But it never went into production and I can tell you that to actually productize such a beast would be outrageously expensive. On a realistic note it simply will never happen. The F65 is a camera for a certain type of production work, for which it can yield stunning imagery. But then the wall comes down.
 
I think the reality is unless you want to add a recording system to the 4K monitor, 1080P monitoring is more than sufficient for most environments. Still annoying, though.
 
An essential role in getting a clean take is the focus puller. I have seen great ones who never looked at the monitor, and one who did using every peaking feature they could to check the sharpness. Technology is still improving to help focus puller achieve the best result on set. I might argue 4k monitoring becomes the norm on set even before 4k TV's become the standard in houses. The Panasonic 1760 and like have been the workhorse of production for many years but a demand for better monitors I think is starting. Everyone who sees my 7Q OLED display then looks at the 17 next to it wants to know what large screen looks like the 7Q, the older LCD looks milky. Not that this is a motivation for Sony to develop the tech for the aging F65, but it don't think it is crazy to think 4k monitoring will be moving to the standard. I know it's a broad statement and I only have a relatively small viewpoint on production only working in the tech obsessed world of hollywood. New screen technology has made large improvements over the last 2-3 years and producers and directors who know little about tech just demand what they see at home on their iMacs now.

I saw the F65 at NAB this year and when a Sony rep came up to me I joked : Do you make these anymore? I did ask about the 4k output questions, which I was directed to the F55 as the camera capable of that. Sony still holds the F65 as their top production workhorse still, I completely get what you guys are saying and I'm just being hopeful. I don't know when I will feel the same excitement about a camera system again as when I first saw Macgregor slap a hyper deck on the F35 and we were allowed access to a camera that was never intended to be owned by people like us. The other big downside of the F65 it wasn't developed at Panavision in the way the F35 was, and it lacks the magic. The F65 is not the successor to the F35 in terms of image. What we are looking for is a 4-8k output camera with the same quality of image as the F35. I think the Aaton Dalsa would of been a successor, it also had a CCD, but there is really no footage or mention of these cameras making it into production.
 
I think the F65 doesn't have a 4K output because it doesn't need it. In Sony's mind, and they are probably right, the F65 already records the best 4K it can in the SR-R4. They also had no interest in steering business away from their SRMASTER system.

As a monitoring option 1080p is more than enough for 4K. When you consider you have a hard time telling the difference between 4K and HD on a 50" screen I'm not sure a director would really miss 4K when watching playback on set. For focus, the good focus pullers don't pull by monitor anyway, at least I don't like working with pullers who are fixed on a monitor.

You have to keep in mind the market segment the F65 was made to inhabit. In that world focus is normally by tape or by feeling if improvisation is needed and being pulled on Master Primes or Cooke S4s and S5s. It will never be a low end run and gun camera. It was not designed for that and for what it was designed a lack of 4K output is not a flaw at all.
 
Aaveum said:
As a monitoring option 1080p is more than enough for 4K. When you consider you have a hard time telling the difference between 4K and HD on a 50" screen I'm not sure a director would really miss 4K when watching playback on set. For focus, the good focus pullers don't pull by monitor anyway, at least I don't like working with pullers who are fixed on a monitor.

You have to keep in mind the market segment the F65 was made to inhabit. In that world focus is normally by tape or by feeling if improvisation is needed and being pulled on Master Primes or Cooke S4s and S5s. It will never be a low end run and gun camera. It was not designed for that and for what it was designed a lack of 4K output is not a flaw at all.
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Exactly. In the old film days pro focus pullers did it with tape, experience, and gut instinct. It was visual, there was no monitor. And that high end world still demands focus pullers who can pull that way. So the F65 was designed for that high end world where 4k monitoring for a focus puller would be a joke, and where Directors, etc. would trust their highly paid DPs on a 1080p monitor... really no need to see it in 4k. That said, Sony did make the SR-R4 dockable, which means they did leave the possibility of an alternate output/record box in the future. My understanding is the F65 is capable of even more than the SR-R4 can handle, so who knows what future hardware could unlock.
 
Guys, I just watched Ex Machina.


Imdb says it was shot on F65 and F55. The making of shows an F65.

The movie looks gorgeous. Not a big budget. It would probably have looked great with most other cameras. Great framing. Some shots are a bit soft - not the sharpest anamorphics.

Most interesting movie this year by far. Amazing dialogue. Instant classic.
 
Been meaning to see that one. Interesting to know it was a Sony show.

The F65 generally looks much nicer than the 5/55 - but the 5/55 would make a good B-Cam I guess or even a crash-cam/steadicam thing.
 
Sindi - glad you're enjoying the camera.

You will find "Filmscan 1" is the best compromise for F35 stuff. High actually loses a lot of detail, Filmscan 2 seems to waste a fair amount of bit-rate but Filmscan 1 is a nice balance. I never noticed a lack of detail with it.

The independent feature "Soldiers of the Damned" was shot on Filmscan 1 with that F35
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PMW-F65-CineAlta-4K-Camera-Head-with-SR-R4-Sony-PMW-F55-/181734288675?

Let's see what the "street value" of a F65 really is.

It's incredible. If you look at how an Arri Alexa can hold a resale value 35-45k easily. How on earth has the F65 dropped so far in value. Perhaps a year or so we will see the 10k F65. A few years after that, we could see the value of the F65 dip below the F35. The F35 is older but there are far fewer in the world. I purchased my F35 over 2 years ago for 7k, I predict I could get at least 5 for it today. The price drop of the F35 will level out while the F65 is going to continue at this incredible rate.
 
Yachacha

I expect that camera may get $20k, it may not.

I paid $40K for mine, but that came with about $8000 worth of memory cards, $5000 worth of viewfinder, had the latest software update (very expensive if you don't have it) and I knew the full and proper history of the camera.

Let's bear in mind the F65 started life a lot cheaper than the F35 (About $85,000 versus some $200,000+ with recorder).

There's a lot of people I know who own Epic M-Xs who are panicked now because RED has just shut them out of the upgrade loop entirely. The F65 is STILL Sony's top of the line camera, whatever it is worth on eBay.

Used ALEXAs are, in my opinion, simply overpriced.
 
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