Just got a new camera - Sony F35
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Jusgorilla
Well-known member
damn!
more and more I want a F23 to go along side my F35, the 2/3 cinema glass is so cheap and covers incredible range. Add in the built in filters, and it's a nice fast setup.
I know I've been a little inactive with my F35, it pains me that I've had it taken apart for so long. I also hit a roadblock with the Codex, the damn thing won't start, so I've put that on the shelf also. I finished sanding down the top dock, I'm going to the CNC shop today to get the real plate made. I've put a cheese plate on in the photos to show a rough idea of the plate I was going to make.
I will clean up the sanding a little bit so it's all smooth. The plate I am going to make will cover the entire sanded area. Basically I want a plate that covers the entire flat top of the camera. I am going to tap a bunch of holes into the plate afterwards. You can see on the one side there are no more holes left in the surface to screw into, I have found a good spot to add 3 holes to attach the plate.
I hope I don't start an argument on misuse of a rare piece of equipment. The danger of this vs the benefit probably do not make sense in any financial way. I took my best care to isolate the internals from the metal shavings during the work, and I am going to spent several more hours cleaning everything, but without a doubt it was risky and now I have rendered the camera modified from it's original state. I have spent the time learning the sony service center parts ordering, and also am comfortable taking complex electronics apart so I feel it is my right to do with my camera what I please. I'm not suggesting others try this, or even venture inside a camera unless they have ownership and confidence in what they are doing. I do not plan on selling my F35 for a longtime.
Hopefully the plate will take 2 days like last time. I'm just about finished the hyper deck so everything is powered internally. After I took the camera apart I went a little crazy with ideas, I was almost sure I could fit a Atomos Ninja Star in the space where the memory card reader was, widen the slot a little and you have a built in CF card Pro Res recorder, then transplant the button surface onto the top. It was too much time and work, need a HDSDI converter in there also, have to route power to everything. My goal is to get my camera back together and working so I can go out and shoot and not worry about upgrades for a few months. Then once I have the time, I will get back to the Codex to make the high end F35 setup but right now I just want a working simple package.
New Zacuto EVF is looking really nice, I was holding out for a good deal on a F35 VF but the prices are too high and they are just too bulky. SmallHD DP4 is acceptable but by no stretch optimal for the F35, however I'm going to stick with it until I find a perfect solution, and I don't feel like cineroid, alphatron are the perfect solution for a nice EVF for the F35.
I know I've been a little inactive with my F35, it pains me that I've had it taken apart for so long. I also hit a roadblock with the Codex, the damn thing won't start, so I've put that on the shelf also. I finished sanding down the top dock, I'm going to the CNC shop today to get the real plate made. I've put a cheese plate on in the photos to show a rough idea of the plate I was going to make.
I will clean up the sanding a little bit so it's all smooth. The plate I am going to make will cover the entire sanded area. Basically I want a plate that covers the entire flat top of the camera. I am going to tap a bunch of holes into the plate afterwards. You can see on the one side there are no more holes left in the surface to screw into, I have found a good spot to add 3 holes to attach the plate.
I hope I don't start an argument on misuse of a rare piece of equipment. The danger of this vs the benefit probably do not make sense in any financial way. I took my best care to isolate the internals from the metal shavings during the work, and I am going to spent several more hours cleaning everything, but without a doubt it was risky and now I have rendered the camera modified from it's original state. I have spent the time learning the sony service center parts ordering, and also am comfortable taking complex electronics apart so I feel it is my right to do with my camera what I please. I'm not suggesting others try this, or even venture inside a camera unless they have ownership and confidence in what they are doing. I do not plan on selling my F35 for a longtime.
Hopefully the plate will take 2 days like last time. I'm just about finished the hyper deck so everything is powered internally. After I took the camera apart I went a little crazy with ideas, I was almost sure I could fit a Atomos Ninja Star in the space where the memory card reader was, widen the slot a little and you have a built in CF card Pro Res recorder, then transplant the button surface onto the top. It was too much time and work, need a HDSDI converter in there also, have to route power to everything. My goal is to get my camera back together and working so I can go out and shoot and not worry about upgrades for a few months. Then once I have the time, I will get back to the Codex to make the high end F35 setup but right now I just want a working simple package.
New Zacuto EVF is looking really nice, I was holding out for a good deal on a F35 VF but the prices are too high and they are just too bulky. SmallHD DP4 is acceptable but by no stretch optimal for the F35, however I'm going to stick with it until I find a perfect solution, and I don't feel like cineroid, alphatron are the perfect solution for a nice EVF for the F35.
JMtheDP
Veteran
Yachacha
I actually went looking for an F23 before the F35, because of the availability of ludicrously priced 2/3" glass, the filter wheel, etc...
I only got the F35 because they seemed to be going cheaper than the F35. I think the F23 is probably rarer.
As for "misusing" kit - sod it, I imagine a lot of this stuff goes on when Panavision, Clairmont, Otto Nemenz, etc.. get their hands on a camera.
I actually went looking for an F23 before the F35, because of the availability of ludicrously priced 2/3" glass, the filter wheel, etc...
I only got the F35 because they seemed to be going cheaper than the F35. I think the F23 is probably rarer.
As for "misusing" kit - sod it, I imagine a lot of this stuff goes on when Panavision, Clairmont, Otto Nemenz, etc.. get their hands on a camera.
ajhill
Member
As long as you end up with beautiful images, I don't think there is such thing as misusing a camera. The rules are gone.
I'm warming up to Justin's idea of modding a 9000PL to remove the tape deck and replace it with something solid state. Didn't SONY promise that would be an upgrade/option some day?
Alan
I'm warming up to Justin's idea of modding a 9000PL to remove the tape deck and replace it with something solid state. Didn't SONY promise that would be an upgrade/option some day?
Alan
Jusgorilla
Well-known member
Viddovation
Veteran
It would be interesting to see how the SRW9000(PL) internally wires the connection between the camera head and the deck. It's quite possible it uses the same communication protocol the F35 and SRW1 uses to communicate.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/mkt/cinema/articles/film_digital_times_f3.pdf
definite mention of a 1TB solid state option. That's interesting because the tape deck is most likely designed to come out as a single assembly, and like Vid says, maybe it uses a similar interface to talk.
With the F35, Sony most likely followed Panavision engineers lead on the body, and they fashioned it after an arri camera with top or back mounted magazine. With the 9000PL, Sony seems to have redesigned the F35 tech into a much more practical form factor. Sony put it's ENG body team on the 9000PL and it is a tempting alternative to the F35. Although a stripped down F35 is lighter than a 9000PL, the 9000PL puts the weight in all the right places. No interface box! Since the 9000PL is a few years newer than the F35, I suspect we start seeing them come out of hibernation over the next few years. I bet they are all a lot less used than our F35's also.
http://www.adcom.it/en/production-r...t-srw-pl/0020003/p_u_14_324_2686_30224_131870
not sure if thats the same one as on ebay.
definite mention of a 1TB solid state option. That's interesting because the tape deck is most likely designed to come out as a single assembly, and like Vid says, maybe it uses a similar interface to talk.
With the F35, Sony most likely followed Panavision engineers lead on the body, and they fashioned it after an arri camera with top or back mounted magazine. With the 9000PL, Sony seems to have redesigned the F35 tech into a much more practical form factor. Sony put it's ENG body team on the 9000PL and it is a tempting alternative to the F35. Although a stripped down F35 is lighter than a 9000PL, the 9000PL puts the weight in all the right places. No interface box! Since the 9000PL is a few years newer than the F35, I suspect we start seeing them come out of hibernation over the next few years. I bet they are all a lot less used than our F35's also.
http://www.adcom.it/en/production-r...t-srw-pl/0020003/p_u_14_324_2686_30224_131870
not sure if thats the same one as on ebay.
ajhill
Member
Superpowers?
Superpowers?
Well if it can be done, Mac will do it. He has Superpowers you know.
I think you probably would be able to fit a Hyperdeck in there, or the guts at least. Although I'm thinking you'd have to use the HDSDI interface. It would be cool to have the coax wired internally to an internal SSD recorder. This might have to be a dedicated connection, which would mean no other exterior recorders. But who want a bunch of extra wires hanging off.
The form factor and weight of the 9000PL is very similar to those Betacams we used to sling around back in the day. And those weighed even more than what we are talking about here. Remember the lead acid batteries! These kids, they have it so easy today, large sensors, light weight, ASAs in the 10,000s, 100,000s. Seriously, there's something to be said for a well-balanced larger mass up on the shoulder. Especially if there is someone to hand it off to at the end of each take. Larger mass seems to work well with Steadicams too.
I look forward to the day when everyone's obsession with tech shifts back to great lighting. Faster and cheaper are currently winning out.
By the way, I loved the look of the Chimsoro video. Great job. The song's stuck in my head, although I have no idea what she's singing about.
Alan
Superpowers?
ajhill, this is Mac's idea, not mine. He is just itching to do it!
Well if it can be done, Mac will do it. He has Superpowers you know.
I think you probably would be able to fit a Hyperdeck in there, or the guts at least. Although I'm thinking you'd have to use the HDSDI interface. It would be cool to have the coax wired internally to an internal SSD recorder. This might have to be a dedicated connection, which would mean no other exterior recorders. But who want a bunch of extra wires hanging off.
The form factor and weight of the 9000PL is very similar to those Betacams we used to sling around back in the day. And those weighed even more than what we are talking about here. Remember the lead acid batteries! These kids, they have it so easy today, large sensors, light weight, ASAs in the 10,000s, 100,000s. Seriously, there's something to be said for a well-balanced larger mass up on the shoulder. Especially if there is someone to hand it off to at the end of each take. Larger mass seems to work well with Steadicams too.
I look forward to the day when everyone's obsession with tech shifts back to great lighting. Faster and cheaper are currently winning out.
By the way, I loved the look of the Chimsoro video. Great job. The song's stuck in my head, although I have no idea what she's singing about.
Alan
JMtheDP
Veteran
The Genesis/F35 were designed to mimic the look of a Panavision film camera. Hence being able to dock the recorder on top or bottom, etc...
The SRW-9000PL is probably the most underrated, most forgotten camera of all time. The imaging power of an F35 put into a nice, well-balanced, shoulder-mount form factor. If there was any justice in the world it would have sold like hotcakes, but it came a little bit too late to the party I think.
Sony did promise a solid-state option, but I think the price of the F65 was lower than everyone expected, so they just jumped on that ship instead.
The SRW-9000PL is probably the most underrated, most forgotten camera of all time. The imaging power of an F35 put into a nice, well-balanced, shoulder-mount form factor. If there was any justice in the world it would have sold like hotcakes, but it came a little bit too late to the party I think.
Sony did promise a solid-state option, but I think the price of the F65 was lower than everyone expected, so they just jumped on that ship instead.
Viddovation
Veteran
Be careful abbreviating it that much, since SRW also refers to the SRW1 among others.
If the SRW9000(PL) supports all the same video modes the F35 does, I can tell you pretty plainly that it has RGB444 quad-link internally wired.
In theory, you could hijack that.
http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-hdcam/srw-9000pl/overview/
So the 2/3 B4 mount SRW 9000 can be upgraded with this kit. Similar to the kits for the F23, I haven't found any evidence that many of these were sold. Or that there are many 9000 or 9000PL's in Los Angeles at all. All the rental houses I talked with when looking for F35 parts had old F35's that had been workhorses and suddenly dropped but no 9000PL's sitting there. I think especially LA, the Epic and Alexa fad had taken over by then.
It's interesting that the Sony CCD module is $59,999 while the CCD module for the 9000PL is listed at $30,000. Prices changed the times? Or is there something extra in the F35.
So the 2/3 B4 mount SRW 9000 can be upgraded with this kit. Similar to the kits for the F23, I haven't found any evidence that many of these were sold. Or that there are many 9000 or 9000PL's in Los Angeles at all. All the rental houses I talked with when looking for F35 parts had old F35's that had been workhorses and suddenly dropped but no 9000PL's sitting there. I think especially LA, the Epic and Alexa fad had taken over by then.
It's interesting that the Sony CCD module is $59,999 while the CCD module for the 9000PL is listed at $30,000. Prices changed the times? Or is there something extra in the F35.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Give SIM Video a call, I saw 9000's over there a year or two ago.
ajhill
Member
Recording on a 9000PL
Recording on a 9000PL
Don't forget that the 9000PL has a built-in recorder. Up to 1080p 444 RGB HQ 880Mbps, built-in, not bad. It may be tape, but it's one hell of a nice format. You can always add on a small solid state recorder, or (gasp) transfer the footage later. You get a nice (30 year) archival format that holds 50 minutes of video for about $30. Compare that to the cost of a roll of 35mm film: stock, processing, transferring.
Remember we are talking about a $80,000 camera based on a $250,000 camera, that now sits on shelves and no one is interested in buying at prices under $10,000.
I think someone said it many moons ago in this thread, a couple year old Lamborghini is still a Lamborghini!
Recording on a 9000PL
Don't forget that the 9000PL has a built-in recorder. Up to 1080p 444 RGB HQ 880Mbps, built-in, not bad. It may be tape, but it's one hell of a nice format. You can always add on a small solid state recorder, or (gasp) transfer the footage later. You get a nice (30 year) archival format that holds 50 minutes of video for about $30. Compare that to the cost of a roll of 35mm film: stock, processing, transferring.
Remember we are talking about a $80,000 camera based on a $250,000 camera, that now sits on shelves and no one is interested in buying at prices under $10,000.
I think someone said it many moons ago in this thread, a couple year old Lamborghini is still a Lamborghini!
Viddovation
Veteran
I mean, I agree, and I knew all of that. The conversation had turned to the notion of modifications to the SRW9000PL, and the idea of replacing the tape deck entirely. So I was commenting on the feasibility of such an endeavor, and so forth.
HDCAM-SR is obviously an excellent format. The problem here is that more and more producers want tapeless delivery.
Hunter Hampton
Carbonite Member
EVERYBODY wants tapeless delivery. Only tape I see going around is LTO. Personally Tape would be fine for me, I like the instant archive.