It's even funnier when it happens to a DSLR.
Just back from shooting a short
- Thread starter Postmaster
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It's even funnier when it happens to a DSLR.
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Nice work Frank. I agree when you can't save those highlights then let them go with dignity! 
Will it be possible to see the final film on the web or just for festival screenings?
I'm a big advocate of reflectors but I'm not sure they could've help Frank. Worst case shooting under a tree canopy and sun streaming through gaps would kill any camera.
I have never come across this when using FCPX, I have exported and imported and have seen zero change to illegal values. The only odd highlight issues I've seen is due to Vimeo clipping.
Would love to know what format you exported to that showed the issue for future reference. I have tested h264 and ProRes which have been faultless IMO.
Will it be possible to see the final film on the web or just for festival screenings?
I'm a big advocate of reflectors but I'm not sure they could've help Frank. Worst case shooting under a tree canopy and sun streaming through gaps would kill any camera.
I have never come across this when using FCPX, I have exported and imported and have seen zero change to illegal values. The only odd highlight issues I've seen is due to Vimeo clipping.
Would love to know what format you exported to that showed the issue for future reference. I have tested h264 and ProRes which have been faultless IMO.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
We had two reflectors, but we where under the canopy of several trees, so it helped a bit, but doesn´t rally cut it.
We plan to show it on some festivals, but I also want it to be available on the web soon as possible - ya know, some festivals have restrictions for content, that is already on the net.
Frank
We plan to show it on some festivals, but I also want it to be available on the web soon as possible - ya know, some festivals have restrictions for content, that is already on the net.
Frank
My DP did something really cool once--don't think it would have helped here but thought I'd share anyway.
We were racing the sunset and needed one last shot after the sun had already sunk behind the buildings. He went about 200 feet away, where the sun was still hitting the ground, and shot some sunlight at the talent with a huge shinyboard mounted on a Matthews. He then defused it with a 6X6 opal mounted close to the talent. It was brilliant. About the same amount of light as a perfectly-balanced 4K PAR through a silk.
We were racing the sunset and needed one last shot after the sun had already sunk behind the buildings. He went about 200 feet away, where the sun was still hitting the ground, and shot some sunlight at the talent with a huge shinyboard mounted on a Matthews. He then defused it with a 6X6 opal mounted close to the talent. It was brilliant. About the same amount of light as a perfectly-balanced 4K PAR through a silk.
paulcurtis
Veteran
http://cine-rls.com/?t=idea
That's the guy who put together this lighting with mirrors system, it's pretty neat really and something you could quite easily do a poor mans version of, especially using the sun.
Much like danstones story too. Sometimes i think that all the grip gear can be overlooked when building lighting kits, yet light modification can make or break a shoot.
Nirv, i'll go back through my exported frames from FCP. I just found that no matter what i exported as (PNG to OpenEXR) that i would see RGB values within FCP that i could not subsequently get from the exported frame in photoshop. It seems that below 16 was clipped (but moved to 0 in the export) and the same for 235, expanded to 255 in the exported frame. So the end result is FCPX would export 16-235 but expand that to fit a 0-255 container making it a little more difficult to notice in some situations.
I wasn't able to find any settings that would change this plus to make it more complicated, exporting from a macbook pro and opening on windows 7- maybe other factors are at play...
cheers
paul
That's the guy who put together this lighting with mirrors system, it's pretty neat really and something you could quite easily do a poor mans version of, especially using the sun.
Much like danstones story too. Sometimes i think that all the grip gear can be overlooked when building lighting kits, yet light modification can make or break a shoot.
Nirv, i'll go back through my exported frames from FCP. I just found that no matter what i exported as (PNG to OpenEXR) that i would see RGB values within FCP that i could not subsequently get from the exported frame in photoshop. It seems that below 16 was clipped (but moved to 0 in the export) and the same for 235, expanded to 255 in the exported frame. So the end result is FCPX would export 16-235 but expand that to fit a 0-255 container making it a little more difficult to notice in some situations.
I wasn't able to find any settings that would change this plus to make it more complicated, exporting from a macbook pro and opening on windows 7- maybe other factors are at play...
cheers
paul
philiplipetz
Veteran
The edit post function is not working so I will comment on the above link. it is a EOSHD article about how QuickTime can crush the blacks and highlits in the manner describe by PaulCurtis
Nirv
Carbonite Member
He obviously doesn't understand super blacks and super brights. You're just wasting time recompressing with 5dtoRGB and limiting yourself in post. Reading the comments on his forum it seems like most people there don't understand either. It has nothing to do with OS X in EOSHD's case it's operator error.
There are a bewildering array of codecs, compressors and players and all behave differently so it's up to the operator to understand which range to output to get the best results. FCP/QT has been blamed for all sorts of things in the past but the vast majority of these issues could be traced back to the workflow and mixing full range codecs with broadcast legal range codecs.
However, I shall be following up Pauls advice re: OpenEXR 'cause that sounds like an issue waiting to happen.
Edit:
Just test OpenEXR out of FCPX. Motion reads the files fine. But going straight back into FCPX is horrible and as Paul described.
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philiplipetz
Veteran
Many many people commented that the solution to the problem was wrong wrong wrong, but what is the proper way to handle crushed blacks and highlights dues to system compression?
Nirv
Carbonite Member
I don't know what you mean by system compression? The OS doesn't compress anything.
If you want to see the extra information in the whites then you should legalise them, bring them below 100ire. The best way is with a gamma curve and a slight roll-off of the highlight zone which gives the best look IMO. Some highlights it's not possible to save and they're so blown you might as well leave them to be clipped. Know that information is there in the super brights and it's up to you how to use it.
I stopped reading the comments when someone posted, "Another reason to ditch the Mac."
philiplipetz
Veteran
Under certain circumstances the Mac operating system changes the color compression to match television standards instead of film standards. Setting the highlight and black limits to be mmore compressed than can be achieved by the camera. What you are talking about is changing imaging in the camera, not postproduction.
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Please explain which standards you are talking about. What do you mean colour compression? Do you mean colour gamut? You have the advantage over me because I have never seen OS X change the black or white point under any circumstance. If you could explain under what circumstances and using which software I'd be interested to know.
OS X supports what ever colour space your display device supports via colorsync.
What I'm talking about is making use of super bright information. I have no idea where film standards came into the conversation.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Yeah, I know Christian Berger and saw his system at work, on the set of "The White Ribbon".
It´s a nice idea, but can be pretty cumbersome sometimes.
But I agree, some sort of large mirror would have saved my a... that day.
Just received some more BTS, that I'd like to share
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I love your wheels/sticks/crane/dolly - always working on similar myself
S
S
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
I really wanted something "all terrain" - hence the big air wheels. It's pretty damn handy.
Frank
Frank
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
A Spyder Cube
Gives me a reference for WB in post/first light
Chrome Ball to measure catchlight to analyse overexposed areas.
White Faces to define highlights in relation to catchlight.
Spectrally neutral 18% Grey Faces to measure color temperature and midtones in all lighting conditions.
Black Trap to define absolute black.
Black Face to define shadows in relation to black trap.
http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfolio-view/spyder-cube/
Gives me a reference for WB in post/first light
Chrome Ball to measure catchlight to analyse overexposed areas.
White Faces to define highlights in relation to catchlight.
Spectrally neutral 18% Grey Faces to measure color temperature and midtones in all lighting conditions.
Black Trap to define absolute black.
Black Face to define shadows in relation to black trap.
http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfolio-view/spyder-cube/
Neat. Thanks.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
I don't do steadycam myself anymore.
I´m to old for that sh... and to fat for my vest anyway :beer:
Would have to ask Frank Baumann, my Steadycam operator.
He told me it was in the $35000 league, so it´s probably a Steadicam or at least parts of it.
Frank
I´m to old for that sh... and to fat for my vest anyway :beer:
Would have to ask Frank Baumann, my Steadycam operator.
He told me it was in the $35000 league, so it´s probably a Steadicam or at least parts of it.
Frank