Jobs for the Blind in the film industry

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paulears said:
This subject REALLY winds me up. It's so close to the Life of Brian, that people need a reality check.

If people have a disability, then they've got to be realistic. It's perfectly possible for somebody who is deaf to be a musician - Evelyn Glennie being the one everyone cites, but her talent is special. She plays an instrument that is tactile, she can feel what it produces, she can feel the response though the floor of what others are doing - visually she gets the feeds that assist. However, there are some circumstances where her considerable talent wouldn't help. A blind editor sitting in front of a monitor? Have somebody explain what is on the screen? Would any of us employ them? I had the same arguement with an ex-student of mine in a wheelchair at college. She wanted to be a stage manager. She could only move her hands, and needed a person to help her at all times. She could see and speak fine, but she could not pick up a pair of headphone and put them on herself, or lift anything.

She had the attitude that the DDA meant she should be allowed to be one. She went to a university, and qualified. Did anyone employ her? Of course not! Part of the job is the responsibility of being the person responsible for safety. When the scenery is falling on the actor, can they help? Nope! How about all the other routine tasks, Nope! How about the stairs to get to the stage - ah, that one is easy - MAKE the venue install ramps and lifts in the precious limited space!

I employ someone with one leg - as a Lighting Designer. He can climb ladders, and do everything I need. If he couldn't, he wouldn't get the job.

So disabled people need to get a reality check. There are plenty of jobs they cannot do, but far more they can. A blind editor is a problem, so is a deaf sound mixer, or a rigger with a fear of heights, or a runner in a wheelchair.

Of course, they could get any of these jobs if the Disability Discrimination Act is shouted loud and clear - but there are few enough jobs in our industry without accepting unsuitable people for the wrong reasons.

I know a uni where a blind bloke was driving the Van around the campus, because driving was a part of the course. He couldn't drive on the road, so they had somebody sitting next to him, in first gear, going left, left, right, stop!

Disabled people don't worry me in the least, just those with unreasonable expectations. If a person with disabilities in one area has strengths in others, there's no problem - so deaf people might have few problems with visuals, blind people might be great mixers and balancers. Horses for courses.

Everyone, as in Monty Python, has the 'right' to do anything - but will it pay the bills?
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I take personal offense to this. I am an advocate for people with disabilities. I have a brother with one hand (his dominant side) and he is the best athlete I have ever met. They told him he couldn't be a goalie on his soccer team. A year later he was being recruited by teams all over the east coast.

My son has Down syndrome. Will he ever be a doctor? Doubt it, but that doesn't mean he should give up on pursuing what he wants.

I have seen dozens. maybe hundreds of people with disabilities do what people told them was impossible. Why? Because they believed in themselves when people like you wrote them off.

I'm not an idealist. I'm a realist. And realism has shown me that EVERYONE has a disability. Some are obvious, but some sneak up on us and hide in plain sight. Prejudice is a bigger disabilty than blindness.

Who would hire her? I would. I'd give her a shot on set or in an edit suite with me.
 
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I think, in Paulears defense, that he was speaking to an attitude of entitlement (at least that was what I got from the stage manager/DDA example), but conflates desire and entitlement.

This particular girl doesn't seem to have an attitude of entitlement, however. She's simply trying to figure out what she can and can't do in a field she's interested in.
 
I see what you are saying Mike. But I will vehemently argue the position that we should NEVER assume ANYONE is incapable of doing something until they are given a chance.

That attitude is poison in any context.

Someone probably told this guy with no legs he couldn't be college and pro tennis player.


Or told this guy he couldn't be a world record sprinter:


Or this guy with no arms he couldn't play guitar
 
Doc Bernard said:
Sound. Definitely sound, in my opinion. I have found that those who have lost their vision, usually enhance other senses. Huge asset.
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I'd love to agree with this one, but I would find it impossible to do
production sound, or post sound without seeing the picture.
 
While not on the technical side of things
what about producing? A lot of things happen on the phone, but even in person
you're more dealing with people not visuals.
 
Jim, I would agree with you 99%. However, going back to his stage manager example... as someone who is a part time TV stage manager, someone in a wheel chair with limited use of their arms isn't going to be able to do my job. There are WAY too many (really expensive) cables on the ground, way too much scrambling up a ladder to swap out lights, and way too many quick moving for it to be done while in a wheel chair.

A good friend was a worship leader at my church. One of the best musicians I ever met. Music was his one true passion in life. He was in a car wreck and is now a quadriplegic. After a couple of years, he finally gave up on music. He took a long hard look at what was involved and realized that in all honesty he would never play guitar again and no amount of desire and passion was going to change that. And without playing, he didn't see much point in writing. So he took a look at what else he was interested in and is now pursuing other things and seeing where life takes him (including becoming a college pastor).

But I would also argue that far too many people confuse impossible with just really really really hard. Being a soccer goalkeeper with only one hand isn't impossible, just really hard. Your brother proves that. All of the examples you gave were people who weren't facing impossible odds, just really really really hard odds (and in the case of the guitar player, was creative in how he was able to beat those odds).
 
I'm not saying that we just let people do what ever they want.

All I'm saying is that looking at people from an asset-based approach is always the best way to go. Why does there have to be an assumption that we are ALLOWING people with disabilities with people to participate? Often with the feeling that we are all suffering in some way because of it. Why don't people just assume that they might actually have something to offer?

Maybe having her in an editing suite with another editor might actually make a project better.
 
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Jim Brennan said:
I'm not saying that we just let people do what ever they want.

All I'm saying is that looking at people from an asset-based approach is always the best way to go. Why does there have to be an assumption that we are ALLOWING people with disabilities with people to participate? Often with the feeling that we are all suffering in some way because of it. Why don't people just assume that they might actually have something to offer?
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Don't disagree one bit :)
 
Mike Harvey said:
A good friend was a worship leader at my church. One of the best musicians I ever met. Music was his one true passion in life. He was in a car wreck and is now a quadriplegic. After a couple of years, he finally gave up on music. He took a long hard look at what was involved and realized that in all honesty he would never play guitar again and no amount of desire and passion was going to change that. And without playing, he didn't see much point in writing. So he took a look at what else he was interested in and is now pursuing other things and seeing where life takes him (including becoming a college pastor).
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Not trying to beat this to death, and I think that you and I are in agreement. I just wanted to point out that this was his choice (not getting in the accident, but giving up music.) He could have chosen to compose, but felt that under the circumstances he was going to do something different. No one made that choice for him.

I apologize if I am coming across as heavy handed. But I stand behind everything I have said. I fight this battle with school systems and government agencies all the time. It gets me riled up because I have seen what people are capable of when they are given the chance, no matter what their label may be. I have also seen how much we miss out on as a society when we don't give that chance.
 
I hope no one took me as saying she CAN'T be an editor. I only said I had grave doubts that a person functionally blind could do it, especially approaching a professional level. If she can, with help, then great. :) But I don't think having those doubts is untoward. (Though she may well be an excellent asset when assisting on an edit, for precisely the reasons Jim mentions.)

Now, to some other points -- of course Beethoven composed some great work while deaf. But he did most of his work when he wasn't, and he certainly learned it while he could hear. I simply don't see a path for someone who could never hear to compose great music, or someone who could never see at all becoming a visual artist -- if not for the obvious problems, then for the fact that they'd never be able to verify if what's in their head was accurately produced.

Someone who's never seen color can't describe the colors in their heads. There's simply no common reference to communicate it. The same would be for music, except in the simplest of tactile forms -- though I suppose there's some possibility of being able to learn some music theory by studying written music. Composing a symphony or learning a pitched instrument is a different matter.

Which isn't to say they shouldn't be "allowed" to try -- of course they should. But recognizing the increidbly steep uphill climb isn't vicious in and of itself.
 
Well, I guess when you think about it. The odds of me being a professional screenwriter or director are pretty unrealistic.

Yet....

:grin:
 
Hopefully we can shift this conversation to a slightly more positive one before the thread gets locked.

I think any blind person could be an asset to the sound design process. I can imagine a blind person listening to the sound and then describing the setting. If they describe a large room but the visuals indicate a small room, there's probably too much reverb. That kind of thing.

Also, and this is extremely speculative, maybe there's a certain thing that happens to sound when certain emotions are felt by people. People who primarily use their sense of vision (most people) repress that subconscious sound effect or tone, but the blind are able to recreate those subconscious sounds because they can focus on them better... and maybe that subconscious feeling of somebody who primarily operates by sound would in turn bring out a much stronger subconscious emotional effect when heard by sighted folk. Again, extremely speculative. I don't believe this happens, it's more of a "what if?".
 
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Jim Brennan said:
I apologize if I am coming across as heavy handed. But I stand behind everything I have said. I fight this battle with school systems and government agencies all the time. It gets me riled up because I have seen what people are capable of when they are given the chance, no matter what their label may be. I have also seen how much we miss out on as a society when we don't give that chance.
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You don't come across as unreasonably heavy handed... I totally get where you're coming from and why.
 
Jim Brennan said:
I apologize if I am coming across as heavy handed. But I stand behind everything I have said. I fight this battle with school systems and government agencies all the time. It gets me riled up because I have seen what people are capable of when they are given the chance, no matter what their label may be. I have also seen how much we miss out on as a society when we don't give that chance.
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Nothing to apologize for, IMO. You see this subject with personal experience. I am not in your shoes, but even I was irritated with what was behind that one person's comments.

And you know me, I am not shy about expressing it. Of course, I am not as tactful about it as you learned folks.
 
Drew Ott said:
Also, and this is extremely speculative, maybe there's a certain thing that happens to sound when certain emotions are felt by characters. People who primarily use their sense of vision (most people) repress that subconscious sound effect or tone, but the blind are able to recreate those subconscious sounds because they can focus on them better... and maybe that subconscious feeling of somebody who primarily operates by sound would in turn bring out a much stronger subconscious emotional effect when heard by sighted folk. Again, extremely speculative. I don't believe this happens, it's more of a "what if?".
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Drew, it's called psycho-acoustics, and it is a real thing. And your hearing must be good to work in those ranges. You describe the definition nearly perfectly.
 
Doc Bernard said:
Drew, it's called psycho-acoustics, and it is a real thing. And your hearing must be good to work in those ranges. You describe the definition nearly perfectly.
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I'm going to look into that, sounds pretty awesome. To hear that I described that well is a big relief... I was wincing while writing that because I thought it would be extremely unclear.
 
Batutta said:
This job may be phased out in the switch to digital but film loader?.. They transfer motion picture film from the manufacturer's light-tight canisters to the camera magazines for attachment to the camera by the 2nd AC. After exposure during filming, the loader then removes the film from the magazines and places it back into the light-tight cans for transport to the laboratory. This job is done "blind" anyway, under a light sealed tent to prevent the film from getting exposed to light.
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A 2nd does a lot more than load mags. Naturally, anything can be adjusted to accommodate special needs.
 
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