To clarify, it will record 4k in 10-bit, but not in RAW format. It will record 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 via the 4 SDI outputs, but it must be recorded to a codec like Pro Res or DNxHD, not RAW data.
GH4 James Miller's Camera Settings for Best Dynamic Range
- Thread starter Benjobe
- Start date
MichaelTiemann
Active member
For those who were waiting for the results of my testing, I decided to post them over on the reduser.net forum: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-to-match-GH4-to-DRAGON-(my-results-thus-far)
The reason I posted there instead of here is because 17GB of the 20GB Dropbox folder I created are R3D files. Here are the test images from the DRAGON that I attempted to match:
The reason I posted there instead of here is because 17GB of the 20GB Dropbox folder I created are R3D files. Here are the test images from the DRAGON that I attempted to match:
True North
Well-known member
Hi Michael - nice to see you here. I followed your entire studio build over at GS from start to finish, what a glorious build. I guess I shouldn't be surprised you have the video bug as well, lol.....Thanks for posting your test, cheers
MichaelTiemann
Active member
Small world!
Erik Wittbusch
Well-known member
The GH4 is the first "photo camera" that has internal 10bit processing in HD.
That means you can get real 10bit files through the miniHDMI in your Atomos Ninja or every other 10bit HDMi recorder.
10bit for that cheap would be my "revolution" because it's that cheap and small. But only if the 10bit files where really good.
That's why I wonder, that nobody tested this before, but posted tons of image tweaks for the 8bit workflow...
That means you can get real 10bit files through the miniHDMI in your Atomos Ninja or every other 10bit HDMi recorder.
10bit for that cheap would be my "revolution" because it's that cheap and small. But only if the 10bit files where really good.
That's why I wonder, that nobody tested this before, but posted tons of image tweaks for the 8bit workflow...
4K 10-bit 4:2:2 requires either the YAGH interface unit ( which won't be available until the end of May, though a few people have managed to get their hands on one ) plus a 4K SDI recorder or a recorder that can record 4K via the GH4's HDMI port. ( the Atmos Shogun will be the first 4K HDMI recorder, but it won't be available until the end of 2014 )
I expect we shall start to see proper YAGH tests within the next month, and then we'll know if the 10-bit 4:2:2 format makes a difference for the GH4.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
4K 10 bit requires the YAGH or capable device, but hopefully someone can test earlier to see what the 10 bit 4:2:2 HD looks like coming from the HDMI output.
vincent thomas
Well-known member
How could be tested today? There is no option for. Excepted maybe HD only with a Ninjablade or so.. Then maybe you will get an idea of the recorded 10bit image, which are not RAW offer really a big + or not... Im not so certian personnally. If your target is fiction and image without comprise, and your budget is limited maybe a blackmagic CC will give better result...?
Im also wondering if you add the recorder with the YAGH, how compact and balanced the rig will be
Im also wondering if you add the recorder with the YAGH, how compact and balanced the rig will be
I believe it's 10-bit YUV (RGB?), not raw. It's been through the in-camera debayer and processing to a viewable image. It's a significant step up from 8-bit, but it's a world away from raw.
On the other hand, you can actually edit it.
True North
Well-known member
Erik Wittbusch
Well-known member
Guys,
the YAGH isn't an option. It's just not portable, needs an extra energy source and so on...
BUT: The GH4 can output 10bit HD Video through the HDMi!!!
It seems it's in 24p only and you can't record internally at the same time, but its there. You won't need the YAGH.
Just the GH4 and any 10bit HDMi-recorder.
Did anybody read the manual?
the YAGH isn't an option. It's just not portable, needs an extra energy source and so on...
BUT: The GH4 can output 10bit HD Video through the HDMi!!!
It seems it's in 24p only and you can't record internally at the same time, but its there. You won't need the YAGH.
Just the GH4 and any 10bit HDMi-recorder.
Did anybody read the manual?
But the "any 10-bit HDMI recorder" is the problem, as I don't think there are any 4K 10-bit recorders on the market right now.
Not released yet, but the Atomos Shogun can do UHD 4k, 10bit, 422, to ProRes or CinemaDNG Raw. However, it doesn't come out until Sept.
Would be nice if BMD came out with a Hyperdeck Shuttle 3.
Erik Wittbusch
Well-known member
I think it's only HD 10bit - not 4k 10bit...
4k might only be 8bit. But I'm nebertheless interested how good the 10bit HD signal really is.
4k might only be 8bit. But I'm nebertheless interested how good the 10bit HD signal really is.
I am curious why you think it's 8-bit, as almost everything I've read about 4K HDMI from the GH4 has mentioned 10-bit external output.
A lot of people here are confusing others with misleading information.
1 GH4 Outputs 4K 10bit 4:2:2 from the micro HDMI.
2 There is only one recorder on the market that can record that with the YAGH through 4 channel SDI and that's KiPro Quad.
3 People have tried to do the same with the YAGH and odyssey q7. It DID NOT work. Convert may or may not fix it or make it compatible.
4 Panasonic isn't hiding 10bit 4:2:2 footage because it's bad or something else. If you know how to search, you'll find it. It's been posted here multiple times and people/stores have done testing as well with the same combo. More footage will be coming.
5 Shogun supposed to be the first HDMI recorder to take GH4's 4K 10bit 4:2:2 signal and record it in ProRes or other formats (most likely DnxHD).
6 Yes, you cannot do recording on camera while outputting 4k 10bit 4:2:2 signal.
1 GH4 Outputs 4K 10bit 4:2:2 from the micro HDMI.
2 There is only one recorder on the market that can record that with the YAGH through 4 channel SDI and that's KiPro Quad.
3 People have tried to do the same with the YAGH and odyssey q7. It DID NOT work. Convert may or may not fix it or make it compatible.
4 Panasonic isn't hiding 10bit 4:2:2 footage because it's bad or something else. If you know how to search, you'll find it. It's been posted here multiple times and people/stores have done testing as well with the same combo. More footage will be coming.
5 Shogun supposed to be the first HDMI recorder to take GH4's 4K 10bit 4:2:2 signal and record it in ProRes or other formats (most likely DnxHD).
6 Yes, you cannot do recording on camera while outputting 4k 10bit 4:2:2 signal.
Erik Wittbusch
Well-known member
Sorry for that - I tried to get more "official" info. It seems the HDMi always delivers 10bit 4:2:2, whether it's HD or 4k.
That of course means, we'll should wait, what the Atomos Shogun can deliver...
Okay, I did a test with settings similar to the "James Miller Settings" and compared them to my preferred settings. Leter, I will make my own thread about my findings (when I shoot new footage on a tripod that will show the difference better).
I found Cine-V to actually be a good choice if you don't want/need to do a lot of grading.
BUT setting Master Pedestal to +15 accomplishes nothing in terms of creating a more "gradeable" image. In fact, it makes the image noisier. My tests show that using Master ped at +15 and then creating a curve etc. to get the contrast beck in post creates way more noise than just setting the Master Ped to 0 and the contrast to a reasonable setting in camera. Plus, lifting Master Ped to +15 decreases luminance tonality in the shadows and eliminates tonal values below about 7.5 IRE.
Now, as a creative choice, Master Ped at +15 can be great. If you leave it looking like that, it can be like having a Low Con filter on the lens. Just don't try to grade it back to a normal look or you wil get noisy shadows.
Speaking of noisy shadows, let's talk about iDynamic.
iDynamic, as my test will show, does its thing by "intelligently" lifting shadow areas by increasing their ISO. So, if you set iDynamic to Standard, shoot at 400 ISO, you may get shadows with 1600 ISO-style noise. It doesn't look pretty.
And it fluctuates as the dynamic range of the scene changes, which for narrative shooting is not helpful.
Cinelike-V is one of the most contrasty profiles on the GH4. Especially with Contrast set to 0 like in James Miller's settings. Using this profile with iDynamic to bring detail to the shadows is counterproductive.
Standard, Natural and Cinelike-D have more shadow detail than Cine-V, especially if you set their contrast to-5, and all will provide an image that is just as flat as Miller's settings but with much less noise because iDynamic is not mucking up the shadows.
In all fairness, the short test clips I've seen from James Miller look fine. And luckily, it's all subjective. All opinion. As long as the end results look good, who cares what settings were used to achieve them? But if the goal is gradeability and less noise, high Master Ped and iDynamic are not your friends.
I found Cine-V to actually be a good choice if you don't want/need to do a lot of grading.
BUT setting Master Pedestal to +15 accomplishes nothing in terms of creating a more "gradeable" image. In fact, it makes the image noisier. My tests show that using Master ped at +15 and then creating a curve etc. to get the contrast beck in post creates way more noise than just setting the Master Ped to 0 and the contrast to a reasonable setting in camera. Plus, lifting Master Ped to +15 decreases luminance tonality in the shadows and eliminates tonal values below about 7.5 IRE.
Now, as a creative choice, Master Ped at +15 can be great. If you leave it looking like that, it can be like having a Low Con filter on the lens. Just don't try to grade it back to a normal look or you wil get noisy shadows.
Speaking of noisy shadows, let's talk about iDynamic.
iDynamic, as my test will show, does its thing by "intelligently" lifting shadow areas by increasing their ISO. So, if you set iDynamic to Standard, shoot at 400 ISO, you may get shadows with 1600 ISO-style noise. It doesn't look pretty.
And it fluctuates as the dynamic range of the scene changes, which for narrative shooting is not helpful.
Cinelike-V is one of the most contrasty profiles on the GH4. Especially with Contrast set to 0 like in James Miller's settings. Using this profile with iDynamic to bring detail to the shadows is counterproductive.
Standard, Natural and Cinelike-D have more shadow detail than Cine-V, especially if you set their contrast to-5, and all will provide an image that is just as flat as Miller's settings but with much less noise because iDynamic is not mucking up the shadows.
In all fairness, the short test clips I've seen from James Miller look fine. And luckily, it's all subjective. All opinion. As long as the end results look good, who cares what settings were used to achieve them? But if the goal is gradeability and less noise, high Master Ped and iDynamic are not your friends.
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