I've decided to pull the trigger.. Any other thoughts

Huy Vu said:
Better yet, just get a fluorescent light. For soft light I don't bother with soft box or bounce anymore since a tungsten fixture sucks up power and generate a ton of heat. Fluorescent saves you time and power if you all need is a soft source.
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Well, that's terrific if you need a soft source. But what if you don't? What if, as the pastor of a church, this gentleman decides he want's to throw some light on the choir or the pulpit from 25ft away? With your solution he's stuck. With a fresnel or open face, he can still do the job.
 
PerroneFord said:
Well, that's terrific if you need a soft source. But what if you don't? What if, as the pastor of a church, this gentleman decides he want's to throw some light on the choir or the pulpit from 25ft away? With your solution he's stuck. With a fresnel or open face, he can still do the job.
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Then get a hard light for that job. A do-it-all solution is always going to be less effective than a specific solution. I own a mixture of soft and hard light and use the right kind when the situation warrants. I hate the hassle of putting on and disassembling a softbox and since it costs you some light as well you're essentially getting less and less bang for your buck.
 
Agreed. But the spec for this purchase was ONE LIGHT. Given the option of two lights, my solution would have been different.
 
Fresnel lights are extremely low tech. Not that much difference between say Colortran and Mole. Sheet metal, simple wiring, a socket. Ooh, yeah I know there are those who buy into the mystique. Watch any film made with non-Mole Richardson luminaires you wouldn't be able to tell.

The main point being that if someone needs lighting on a budget the so called "off brands" will get you there quicker. While you're raising money for a Mole baby solar spot you could have two maybe three Colortran or Strand fresnels and start shooting your show.
 
jimpatro said:
Fresnel lights are extremely low tech. Not that much difference between say Colortran and Mole. Sheet metal, simple wiring, a socket. Ooh, yeah I know there are those who buy into the mystique. Watch any film made with non-Mole Richardson luminaires you wouldn't be able to tell.

The main point being that if someone needs lighting on a budget the so called "off brands" will get you there quicker. While you're raising money for a Mole baby solar spot you could have two maybe three Colortran or Strand fresnels and start shooting your show.
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You know, I was a gaffer on a shoot recently. Of the dozen or so instruments we used, the only light that failed over the 30 days was a Colortran. Maybe just coincidence, but...
 
2 Lights would be IDEAL. It all depends on budgets. and my wife. LOL

I was showing my wife all the light diagrams and she really likes the look of Hard Lights Best. I still like softlight.

So if I can affor 2 lights I might one of each of the above.

This C stand. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/227746-REG/Matthews_756040_Hollywood_Century_C_Stand.html

And will any of these scrims work with either one of the lights.??

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=light+scrim&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

I am getting excited.
 
The Lowel Scrims are designed for their lights. I've got to head out for a bit, but I'll check in later and if someone hasn't helped you more, I'll chime in again.
 
PerroneFord, in one of your statements you mentioned that if I am going to go through silk that I should by any open face light?? Are you suggesting any Arri or any brand like like a 600w Par Can I can get for 50 bucks???

My wife is keen on getting a good hard light. But I will still by silk or scrim to go with it.

So I need a Light. (still confused if i should get a brand name or just any ole light)
a C Stand. going to find info on this
Srim/Silk

This would allow me to go either hard light shots, soft light shots and control my light on a stand rather then just sitting on books or on the floor.

Is this correct so far???

I think I am going to then try and build my own china ball system has anyone come across the best site for specs and build info in the UK

Alos, you mentioned that you gave me an opinion based on one light, you said that if it were 2 lights you would have gave me another suggestion... Please share.

I just want to spend my money wisely. I get caught up having brand name stuff sometimes, like Arri/Dedo. I know they arent the ONLY lights out there but my personality takes comfort in knowing that to pay a little more money Im getting an industry accepted item.
 
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If you're just going to shoot through diffusion, any hard light source will do. But you really need to ask yourself a few questions

1) Is this something that is going to last you a long time and stand up to the abuse on set?
2) Is it fast/easy to set up?
3) If you do want to upgrade down the line, is this going to hold its resale value?
4) Is this something that you're comfortable using in front of paying clients?

Answer the four questions above and you'll see why "name brand" are priced differently.

You can always look at Briteks. For about $400 you can get set up with a full kit with softboxes, stands and bulbs. A lot of people hate them because of shoddy build quality, but I used them for over a year before upgrading and they work, and they're dirt cheap.
 
If you want a bulletproof solid brand for your first Fresnel, I can highly recommend Filmgear. I own four of them, some used, some new and they are rock solid high quality, better fit/finish than Arri..and...they actually cost less!. They have a distributor in UK you can find on their website: www.filmgear.net. Here is also a link to their new US distributer: Birns and Sawyer. Note, these fixtures look purple in the pics but they are really more of a brown/black in normal light. Also of note, I have totally given up on B&S. For some reason I cannot get any of my numerous emails or phone calls returned. However, you can buy direct from Filmgear in Hong Kong. I have no connection to them. I accidentally stumbled into them when I purchased a few used fixtures from Ketch Rossi in the Marketplace---Thank you Ketch!. Like you I prefer to own quality gear and am really happy about discovering this brand.
 
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Any light source, whether a $1,000 fresnel or a $50 PAR can or a $10 worklight, is going to look pretty much the same when it's shined through a silk.

Quality gear like an Arri, Filmgear, Mole, or B&M or Altman, is going to be better and safer to work with; I personally think worklights are an accident waiting to happen and are more hassle than they're worth.

So, yes, you'd want a decent fresnel with a proper stand mount and proper barn doors and a frame that will accept scrims, and you want a decent stand that won't fall over and won't slip and will safely hold that light at whatever position you tell it to.

If money is not much of a concern, you can get a new Arri Softbank IV kit for about $2500 which is a complete lighting kit; nothing in it is particularly brilliant but it's all professional and well made and will serve you well and includes softboxes, barn doors, and stands.

You can spend much less and get the same look out of your lighting, of course. The first thing to look at would be used equipment. If it's still in decent shape, I'd a million times over rather have a used mole-richardson than a brand-new piece of junk. You can buy thirty-year-old equipment that still performs perfectly well. Ebay, or pyramid films, are places you can find used equipment.

The tungsten fresnel is the staple basic flexible light in a cheap light kit. For soft light you can put a sheet of diffusion in front of it, or a softbox on it, or a silk in front of it, or bounce it off a sheet of white foam core, or ... well, lots of things. But a decent well-made tungsten fresnel is the core of a usable light kit. It's focusable (flood/spot), it'll have barn doors for control (and for attaching gels), it's dimmable (get a $10 "router speed controller" from Harbor Freight Tools for the cheapest 1500w dimmer), and you can modify the light pattern with scrims, flags, nets, fingers, dots, silks, or softboxes.

If, however, you're just looking for cheap hard light, an open-face fixture will be much less expensive. It's not as flexible, but it'll give you a broad swath of cheap hard light and, as said before, if you shine it through a silk or bounce it off a white board, it'll be just as soft as a fresnel shined through that same silk or bounced off that same white board.

A PAR is a more specialized type of light, in that it's optimized for long distance throw and a narrow beam. PARs are great when you need them, but they're not general-purpose lights.

The tungsten fresnel is the low-cost general-purpose lighting fixture, and if you don't have any lights now, it's probably the first one to get. Depending on the sensitivity of your camera, you'd probably want one in the 650w range; typical common sizes are 150w, 300w, 650w, 1000w and 2000w. I've got all those, and the 650 is the one that sees the most use.
 
scotman said:
PerroneFord, in one of your statements you mentioned that if I am going to go through silk that I should by any open face light?? Are you suggesting any Arri or any brand like like a 600w Par Can I can get for 50 bucks???
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Yes. The quality of light will be dictated by the "apparent source" If you place a silk in front of a light, the silk becomes the apparent source and the light will take on the quality of that silk. It's softness, it's light direction, etc.

scotman said:
My wife is keen on getting a good hard light. But I will still by silk or scrim to go with it.
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That's a good idea. There are many good hard light sources out there. A good fresnel is always going to be more costly than a similarly good open face. So I am not telling you to go buy a crappy open faced light. I am saying buy an open faced light commensurate with your needs.

scotman said:
So I need a Light. (still confused if i should get a brand name or just any ole light)
a C Stand. going to find info on this
Srim/Silk
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I think you should get a quality light. But whether that be an Arri, Mole, Lowel, or some other brand is down to your pocket. My choices have been Mole and Lowel. Lowel gets the job done at a reasonable cost. The Mole I bought when I needed a tungsten fresnel with no compromises. Two different needs.

Using a light modifier such as a silk could be expensive and complicated to set up. Understand that once you get into this level of work, you are not generally "working quickly". You are lighting for a specific look and taking your time to get it. The purpose of a scrim is to reduce the amount of light hitting the subject. It's somewhat unlikely you'll need to worry about this a lot unless you start buying some powerful light sources. But they are quick, easy, and effective. And cheap too, so makes sense to get one or two.


scotman said:
This would allow me to go either hard light shots, soft light shots and control my light on a stand rather then just sitting on books or on the floor.

Is this correct so far???
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Yes, sounds good so far.

scotman said:
Alos, you mentioned that you gave me an opinion based on one light, you said that if it were 2 lights you would have gave me another suggestion... Please share.

I just want to spend my money wisely. I get caught up having brand name stuff sometimes, like Arri/Dedo. I know they arent the ONLY lights out there but my personality takes comfort in knowing that to pay a little more money Im getting an industry accepted item.
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Ok, bear in mind this is just my "opinion".

The real trick to lighting is the grip. The stands, reflectors, flags, light modifiers, etc. This is where light is truly shaped. It is so, so rare to have just a bare fixture hitting the subject. You just really never see it. The problem is that the more you do this light modifying, the longer it takes. So you see things like softboxes get set up to be expedient.

If I was recommending something it would be this:

1. Lowel Rifa softbox + the Exchange 3 head. Buy the biggest softbox you can afford. This gives you a nice soft source light that is easy and quick to set up. The exchange head system allows you to go florescent should you desire keeping the room/talent cool and comfortable.

2. One open source. Either a Mole 1k or a Lowel DP. The 1k size allows you some punch when you need it, and allows you to use a silk or other light modifier and still get some good light through it.

3. At least 2 C-stands. More is better, but these things are just invaluable

4. One decent light stand. This can be replaced by a c-stand if you want.

5. A couple scrims, at least one soft silk that can go in C-stand, and other basics like spare bulbs, etc.

6. Some pieces of white foam core and a couple duck-bill clamps.

With this basic kit, you can accomplish a LOT in terms of lighting. If you need to travel with this light kit, I'll change a couple of suggestions. But this should give you a very flexible setup to work with.
 
Ok. Thought about it. Looked at all my options. You guys have been super helpful. I know 100% that i still have a lot to learn about lighting but I can talk about it forever. Nothing will beat me getting a light and working with it. So heres what I decided to get.

This will allow me to use it in America as Well as the UK. Ill just get different bulbs.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/227746-REG/Matthews_756040_Hollywood_Century_C_Stand.html

1 C stand

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/72020-REG/Arri_531600_650_Watt_Plus_Tungsten.html

Arii 650 W

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=lighting+silk&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

Silk (just not sure which one)

I know its a metter of preferance.. But right now I have the budget for one good light, one good stand, and one relfector/silk/scrim to make my hard light soft.

Its not ideal to most people but I want really good stuff but can only afford one piece at a time.

I need lightbulbs too so does anyone know where i can get cheap bulbs from that will do the trick??

PLEASE, SHARE WITH ME YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS..

By the way, my wife just bought this for me for my interviews.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320448359729&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Its what my people will stand in front if. Ill try to light it with my pars softened, and use the arri soft on a Cstand to light my subjects.

 
When you're shooting a fresnel or open face light through diffusion, the result is almost the same. The open face is going to add a lot more level to your base lighting whereas the fresnel's output is more directional. It's always best to have as much control over your base level as you do with your keys, etc.

Of course you can use the open face but you'll be flying some extra flags to control it.
 
scotman said:
Hey guys over the past few weeks I think I've decided to pull the trigger on a light. I can only afford 1 right now. I'm going to do an arri junior with dimmer and stand, softbox too. I think it'll run like 500 bucks. Any thoughts or other options. I would rent a kit in the uk for like 130 usd but a little more money and I can own my own light.:) any last minute thoughts? Is it s smart ideas??

The china ball system was also a last minute thought:£ ???
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My 2 cents:

Don't waste your money on an Arri fresnel fixture, especially a new one. Light fixtures are very simple devices. They either work or they don't (pretty much).

For location interview setups, you'd get more for your money with used open face focusable fixtures the advantages of which I'll list here:

Lighter
Smaller
Less expensive (than fresnel)
More light output due to lack of lens
Virtually identical light output in terms of quality

As for stands, c-stands are great but can be cumbersome to transport due to weight and size. Regular old aluminum kit stands are fine and you can fit more of them into a case or bag than c-stands.

.
 
Hey Chris, others have suggested Mole Richardson, Lowel, or Dedo. All seem really good but all were decently priced.

The lowels were nice and cheaper but tons of people said they weren't the greatest. I like the look of the lowels too..

Arris seem like a godd deal. A little expensive but aren't all lights??

What lights do you suggest???

So a regular stand is fine?? Thx
 
I've been using Lowel fixtures for the past 20+ years and even though you'll almost never find them on a grip truck or on a sound stage, they work.

And no, all lights are not expensive and again, when it comes to tungsten lighting, buying new stuff is a waste of money in my opinion. Especially if you're on a budget - IF, you have at least a small measure of mechanical and electrical ability.

So, take for example. This, for $314...

http://www.amazon.com/Lowel-Light-1000-Stand-Doors/dp/B000CSR3YG

... as opposed to this, for $400... (sans barndoors, lamp, and stand - CA-CHING!)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/72030-REG/Arri_531100_Plus_1000_Watt_Fresnel.html

Is the Arri fresnel fixture a "better" fixture? That depends. How good a fixture do you even need? The DP light will take up less space, is lighter, offers almost the same quality of light, which as mentioned if diffusing anyway, it won't matter, and will give you more usable light output than the Arri fixture (or the same).

Not to mention you don't have to worry about cracking the lens which will render the fixture almost useless.

I've used ancient Lowel stuff from rental companies that was beat to sh!t and still functional. A new Lowel DP light can be dropped again and again and all you'll lose is maybe the lamp, not the lamp AND the lens.

If you need gear to travel and shoot with, it's insane to consider fresnel fixtures unless you can afford Dedo or have a need for HMI - in part because you can fit less fresnel fixtures into cases or bags than you can open face fixtures and when you're flying, you're PAYING for checked bags.

As for stands, seriously, it's not rocket science. Lowel makes fine quality aluminum kit stands as well as Bogen, which with the addition of a Lowel cradle can provide almost the same functionality as a c-stand.

.
 
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What if I am also looking for a hard light as well?? There will be some occasions to diffuse but some shoots where I need a hard light that I can control. Then what options are important?? What about a RedHead or a lowel that has more control. Or is that where barn doors come in??
 
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