It's shipping! And there's a surprise

I haven't opened the BMC, but I guess the board is basically as big as the screen. You'd have to break that into several PCBs with flex connectors in order to have a longitudinal camera. I have never designed such a complex PCB, so I don't have any idea of how easy or difficult that is, but my guess is: it would take a lot of effort, maybe half as much as designing the 4K camera with the same body as the original BMC.
 
Gillvane said:
Why is that "greed"? Every company sells their product to make as much money as they can from that product legally. You can't give money away. That would be stealing from your stockholders.

Canon can "get away with it" because they are competitive in the market place. If someone can produce what Canon does for less money with more features, then they are welcome to do that and they can take market share away from Canon.
Click to expand...

I was just trying to explain the perspective, but yeah I completely understand why it happens. Lots of people have voiced disappointment in Canon though, especially the pace of their sensor development relative to the competition.
 
Companies are like people, because they're led by people.
They come in different styles and with different philosophies.
It's fair to say that some companies (currently BM and Sony certainly) have a much more tuned ear and interest in interfacing with their film making/video customers and responding to their input.
From that standpoint, Canon is more aloof and internal in their dealing with this market and much, much slower to deliver change and innovation.

It's their choice, but as the owner of a production company that invested a small fortune in Canon cameras and lenses over the years, I can say I haven't touched one of their new cameras in 5 years. In that time I've purchased a number of Sony, Black Magic and Panasonic cameras because of their more responsive development regarding our needs and wishes.
 
Samuel H said:
To me, it's just a matter of priorities. BM could have brought a longitudinal body in 2014, or the 4K camera, but not both. Not with their limited resources.
Click to expand...

I think you're absolutely right.

In my simplemindedness I think it can't be that hard. But thanks to the opendooredness of companies like RED, Ikonoskop, BlackMagic, and Digital Bolex, we get to witness months tick by just to get the bugs worked out of an already fabricated sensor. No doubt the stalwarts like Canon and Sony fight the same battles, behind closed doors, albeit somewhat faster, thanks to their experience, capital, and paved infrastructure.

Still, I think the big ones could have gone faster. I've wanted a large-sensor videocamera since the 90s, when I started making movies. It seems that it took a rebel company (RED) or blind accident (DSLRs with video mode) for them to finally catch on.
 
Last edited:
I do think there is an element of greed behind how different companies operate, depending on who is calling the shots and what the bonus structures are...it's just how it is. I've witnessed it in the company I work for, and every company I've ever worked for. Sometimes those motivations lead to good choices that equal profits and in other cases those things can lead to decisions which will leave them in the dust of their competitors.

The people who purchase the products help decide which way it will go, but not completely. Back to cameras....

at the price point of these cameras we still have to make compromises, and it's often not an easy choice which ones to make -

Go with the C100 or AF100 and you get ND filters, viewfinders, good audio, good on camera tools, OLPFs, etc...but you won't get raw or high quality codecs on board (externally you can get better recording though)

Go with the BMC cameras and you get a powerful raw/pro res sensor in a box....but little else.
 
I would love for BMD to actually give what's being asked for here, and price it accordingly.

That way we could see who's actually going to pay 12K for the camera they're pining for. =]

And hey, that's a generous made-up MSRP, given that the closest thing to it still costs 15K+

Maybe someone'll rehouse the 4K camera for an additional $4K.
 
kholi said:
i would love for bmd to actually give what's being asked for here, and price it accordingly.

That way we could see who's actually going to pay 12k for the camera they're pining for. =]

and hey, that's a generous made-up msrp, given that the closest thing to it still costs 15k+

maybe someone'll rehouse the 4k camera for an additional $4k.
Click to expand...

qftmft.
 
Seriously though, at $3,000 for the camera, one could afford to go buy an extremely nice external preamp, strap it to the camera and it would be better and cheaper than what any in-built audio could be anyway.
 
Kholi said:
I would love for BMD to actually give what's being asked for here, and price it accordingly.

That way we could see who's actually going to pay 12K for the camera they're pining for. =]

And hey, that's a generous made-up MSRP, given that the closest thing to it still costs 15K+

Maybe someone'll rehouse the 4K camera for an additional $4K.
Click to expand...

That was my point, Black Magic gave a certain group of people exactly what they had been asking for...."Give me a great sensor at a good price and I'll build around it"

We can't expect a $3,000 BMC/C100. We all have to choose at such good price points.
 
Kholi said:
I would love for BMD to actually give what's being asked for here, and price it accordingly.

That way we could see who's actually going to pay 12K for the camera they're pining for. =]

And hey, that's a generous made-up MSRP, given that the closest thing to it still costs 15K+

Maybe someone'll rehouse the 4K camera for an additional $4K.
Click to expand...


You think a different-shaped body, XLRs, and maybe an ND filter is $9,000?
 
combatentropy said:
You think a different-shaped body, XLRs, and maybe an ND filter is $9,000?
Click to expand...

Edited for clarity and phrasing.

I think that could be too basic of an observation. The costs of r&d for the C300 are *most likely* significantly higher - their sensor was in house instead of sourced (and it does 80,000 ISO which is rare), the body design is very well regarded (read the reviews compared to the BM body), and the failure rate requirements are likely much more strict since its a documentary camera. Oh, and Canon was price skimming because they could in a market with low competition.

Blackmagic is a very different company. In this space they are a breakthrough innovator. I believe, which you don't have to, that they allow a degree of compromise to reliability and usability. Because there are no quantifiable benchmarks for design I cannot provide data but reviews say a lot. Reliability - just see the message boards. They've found a way to appeal to a certain market where image quality is more important than the other factors.
 
Last edited:
Kholi said:
I would love for BMD to actually give what's being asked for here, and price it accordingly.

That way we could see who's actually going to pay 12K for the camera they're pining for. =]

And hey, that's a generous made-up MSRP, given that the closest thing to it still costs 15K+

Maybe someone'll rehouse the 4K camera for an additional $4K.
Click to expand...

As one of the many who has paid for a Sony FS700 and a Odyssey 7Q to get much of that functionality
(although in two devices that must be 'wired' together) and at pretty much the price you stated.......I think
you might be surprised at how many people would pay for that. Not as many as will buy a 2k DSLR of course,
but there is a market there.
 
If BMD made the camera in a body like the C100 and gave just audio meters and XLR, maybe some ND I would pay $6000-8000 depending on the over all execution. And I'd do it without batting an eye.
 
David W. Jones said:
Let's face it, these cameras are expendables now.
Click to expand...

Ha, there's a lot truth to that, seems like some cameras do certain things well, some better than others. With NAB 2014 around the corner there's still no real sign of the "perfect camera". At least as far as price is concerned. A near perfect camera for me would be what Dusty describes, maybe with some higher frame rates and of course weather stripped. Now I may be pushing it
 
Yes, but who are we kidding here? The value of these cameras are like selling art, it is worth what someone will pay for it. Who wants to pay $20,000 for a 2/3" camera body right now? We have had "4K" for many generations of still cameras going back to the Digital Rebel XT, just without the processing power to export it as a video stream. If we had a series of Digital Rebel jpgs in a video stream like a timelapse, the community would have killed for that image quality out of a sub-$1,000 camera body. The sensors have been here for a while. And yes, an new sensor development like the C300 costs a lot, they will ride that for a long time as they add features along the way.

In my view, the BM 4k is what these cameras really cost without competitive markup. They will probably bring out a full featured body for $5,000 at some point as well. Then all bets are off for camera pricing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top