FS5: Issue with focus magnification in 4K

jc01108 said:
Interesting. I use focus mag all the time. Find peaking on the FS5 gets me close, but is not as exact as focus mag. I always go just beyond the focus point and then go back. Takes just a moment. Of course, there are times when there is no time for focus mag and I just use peaking. Depends on the situation and what I am shooting.
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same here. I use it with peaking (!) for critical subjects with the contax zeiss 50/1.4 and 85/1.8
 
Newsguy said:
Now you're just on a different topic. Arguing why achieving critical focus is necessary for a broadcast application is for another thread. Normal viewing conditions don't exist when sending things out for air. Sure, if I watch an interview on my laptop I won't notice the error like the guy who is watching it on his 70" tv will. I can spend days giving you examples of footage that looked great in a viewfinder and when viewed on a reference monitor when editing, it was clear the focus was on the wrong point, like slightly behind or in front of where it should have been. Now blow that up to a giant hd or uhd screen and its distracting.
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Nope, the size of the screen does not really matter. Your laptop screen gives you the same precision of viewing as a gigantic movie theatre screen, that's because you are much closer to it, typically at about 2'. It's about angular size of the screen, not the real size. I encourage you to carefully watch this presentation, it talks about resolution primarily but also talks about this exact misconception. Very well presented and I hope it helps you. Watch both parts, but part 2 is particularly eye opening. https://theasc.com/articles/a-clear-look-at-the-issue-of-resolution
 
Going back to the OP question for a second -- I wasn't clear, but did you have peaking on when in focus mag? This can make small details appear softer (this is one of the reasons for using color peaking - so you know what part is image sharpness and what part is peaking!) Obviously, the sharper a small detail is, the more spread out (or unsharp) the peaking aspect is...
Ever since back with the FS700 I've found myself using a combination of focus mag and an extra monitor whenever I'm on a tripod. This gives me the option to keep one monitor for framing while having a consistent focus reference on the LCD screen. It's great for all kinds of live events where you don't want to be 'rolling through' to check focus.
In terms of sharpness and screen size, I think you may find that the field of view angle for a laptop (or even desktop) screen will be considerably different than it may be for watching large screen tv's. I'm not talking "optimal" viewing angles, but the actual angles that you see. At the distance I sit from my 24" computer screen, I would need a 34" - 36" screen to replicate my typical large screen tv viewing angle (the field of view for when I watch a film on it.)
And going way off topic for a second - I don't shoot a lot with Canon cameras, and was really surprised this week when shooting with a C300mk2 in 4K that the focus mag function didn't work while the camera was recording. I'm not used to that camera and maybe I had the settings wrong, but I guess I'm so used to the Sony focus mag working ever since the EX1 era, that I was really shocked!
 
broughtonfilm said:
Nope, the size of the screen does not really matter. Your laptop screen gives you the same precision of viewing as a gigantic movie theatre screen, that's because you are much closer to it, typically at about 2'. It's about angular size of the screen, not the real size. I encourage you to carefully watch this presentation, it talks about resolution primarily but also talks about this exact misconception. Very well presented and I hope it helps you. Watch both parts, but part 2 is particularly eye opening. https://theasc.com/articles/a-clear-look-at-the-issue-of-resolution
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Thanks. I did watch this piece back when t was originally posted and it was very informative. This has nothing to do with my original question which is why I didn't want to have the resolution discussion.

OnSet, I didn't use mag in conjunction with peaking. Depending on how wide the shot is, I find the fs5 peaking to be pretty bad. Since it's the edge peaking type, wide shots will show several parts of the frame peaking. I recently rented the C300 MKii for a small project but I didn't use the focus mag function. I like that canon has a menu for the LCD where you can change the intensity and frequency settings, so the peaking is quite accurate easy to see. We used a couple of C500's as well and they seemed to have identical screens.
 
Newsguy said:
Thanks. I did watch this piece back when t was originally posted and it was very informative. This has nothing to do with my original question which is why I didn't want to have the resolution discussion.
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I see the problem is then in connecting the dots... They all don't make much sense individually...
 
The focus magnify function on the FS5 is garbage. There is nothing wrong with your camera. It's not doing a 1:1 pixel crop, it's just blowing up the lower resolution LCD image. I use an external monitor. Even a 1080p monitor helps immensely
 
I think its worth remembering its a camera thats costs just a bit more than a fancy mattbox,rods and a set of filters .. expectations to costs seem to be getting a bit distorted .. Sony might put pro on the box but it is what it is..
 
Don that's is true but to some, probably you included, using consumer stuff for work is a bit of a shock.

Also Sony have a whizz bang culture - my black magic micro doesn't have punch in at all - a different route to cheap that I actually prefer
 
morgan_moore said:
Don that's is true but to some, probably you included, using consumer stuff for work is a bit of a shock.

Also Sony have a whizz bang culture - my black magic micro doesn't have punch in at all - a different route to cheap that I actually prefer
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Sorry don't really follow your point .. whizz bang culture ?.. different route to cheap.. dont get it.. Have avoided prosumer gear as much as possible.. never used a stills lens for video so far.. never bought cheap monitors..never used card adaptors only SxS...cheap tripods etc..I have a A6300 which Ive used once as a B camera on an interview .. .. Ive spent more than I should have probably.. but just to avoid hassle and stress, and get the job done .. personally I think its worth it.. my point simply a $5/6 K camera is not going to have a fancy EVF.. which just by itself will cost the same as the camera .. cost-features-expectations .. we expect alot now for very little...
 
Whiz bang - created for a dizzying spec sheet
Hfr - soft
Focus bash - soft
Luts - sometimes
Ect
Bmagic
No hfr luts or bash
Arri
Solid everything

-
I don't know your personal kit - fs7 maybe - I bet 10 years ago you had a $80k camera.

So yep we agree - $8k does not buy you $80k of kit :)
 
morgan_moore said:
Whiz bang - created for a dizzying spec sheet
Hfr - soft
Focus bash - soft
Luts - sometimes
Ect
Bmagic
No hfr luts or bash
Arri
Solid everything

-
I don't know your personal kit - fs7 maybe - I bet 10 years ago you had a $80k camera.

So yep we agree - $8k does not buy you $80k of kit :)
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haha Still got me with the first lot.. maybe I need to have a drink.. :).. I have an f5.. 10 years ago I have been Digibeta 790 .. yeah I suppose about $80K with a lens.. Im loving the cheaper cameras.. but TBH.. I wouldn't be expecting much from a $5K camera EVF in Mag mode.. or even my $2.5K f5 LCD EVF in mag mode.. nice to have the function but only use in desperation..
 
I rely on the focus mag in the Odyssey 7Q+. Since I'm always overexposing for RAW, I usually can't see a damn thing in the sony viewfinder.
 
Not to derail the thread, but has the new VF for the F5-55 been released yet? I'd love to hear some reviews on it...
 
JCummings said:
Not to derail the thread, but has the new VF for the F5-55 been released yet? I'd love to hear some reviews on it...
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Yes me too.. maybe it will be released on the 6th sept when the new camera is unveiled .. I thought I had read that it would be in Sept anyway..
 
SamEd said:
I rely on the focus mag in the Odyssey 7Q+. Since I'm always overexposing for RAW, I usually can't see a damn thing in the sony viewfinder.
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You really need to send your VF in for repair because apparently it is not functioning properly.
 
JCummings said:
Not to derail the thread, but has the new VF for the F5-55 been released yet? I'd love to hear some reviews on it...
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Here, let me guess: "Fantastic color, sharp image. VF is too expensive. Too bad you can't flip the eyepiece up for arms length/handheld/dolly shots!"
 
Hi - late to the discussion but I found it because I have the same issues as Newsguy. Soft viewfinder in 4K, peaking not reliable enough for focus, focus mag very soft in 4K.

I have had a FS5 for 10 months and I am finding it a pain to shoot swiftly and accurately. 95% of my stuff is shot in 1080 where the LCD screen and peaking works pretty well... but in 4K the LCD screen just softens up and is a very poor representation of what I am recording. I can't rust it. An HDMI output sent to a domestic 1080 20 inch monitor is sooo much sharper... but I will lose that as soon as I press record... and the way I work a separate screen or viewfinder defeats the point of a tool designed for lightweight working.
 
I don't shoot run n' gun in 4K on my FS5 anymore. Its LCD is over matched. Verite in HD and 4K in controlled situations where I can take my time to find my focus.
 
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