Iso adjustment

NewYorkLion

NewYorkLion

Well-known member
So, I've done two shoots so far with my af100 and I'm really enjoying it. It's taking me a little while to get used to the crop factor and decrease in depth of field, but what currently sticks out for me is the iso adjustment. I would LOVE if I could use the wheel at the back of the cam or the function knob at the side to scroll through isos, i'm usually trying to shoot wide open, so I'm often adjusting my exposure using iso, and only having three choices is a little irksome, basically before I roll on a setup I need to go into the menu and select the 3 isos I think I'll need. Having that thing at the back adjust iso would be so much more funtional for me that frame rate.

Also, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to make the 'dial in white balance' work. I can't even find it in the menu.

All in all I'm lIking the camera very much
 
For the WB dail to work you need to do two things:
1. set the White bal to "PRST"
2. click the AWB-button till its says VAR to the right in the screen.

Then adjust with the function nob.
 
I am finding the same - it seems the only way to "tune" the exposure is with the lens aperture. Even if you wanted to do it with shutter speed (which most don't) there are only a limited number of shutter speeds available. Maybe better iso and/or more shutter speeds can be added in firmware?

I guess that feels like a missing feature coming from DSLR - the ability to adjust each of the three exposure variables in 1/3 stop increments.
 
ASG said:
I am finding the same - it seems the only way to "tune" the exposure is with the lens aperture. Even if you wanted to do it with shutter speed (which most don't) there are only a limited number of shutter speeds available. Maybe better iso and/or more shutter speeds can be added in firmware?

I guess that feels like a missing feature coming from DSLR - the ability to adjust each of the three exposure variables in 1/3 stop increments.
Click to expand...

Most will agree - that is the best way to tune exposure. It has been for decades (or a century? Looking to Ryan O'Hara for history here). Adjusting shutter speeds affects motion blur. Adjusting ISO is okay (within reason), but doesn't give you precise control, introduces variable amounts of noise, etc. The aperture exists so you may have total control of exposure, though I suppose electronic lenses will only give you 1/3rd stop increments.

If you have to shoot wide open, then use your ND wheel, or extra ND filters.
 
I always thought lighting was the way to adjust exposure? In 30 years of shooting, I can't remember changing the gain structure by more than 3db in either direction very often. I'm sure an event shooter would do so more often, ditto a doc shooter, but in a narrative or any controlled lighting setup, having more than three gain or ISO settings is an answer to a question I never thought of asking.
 
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Would you really see the difference between 1/50 and 1/75, no but it would be handy to adjust the exposure that way! :)
 
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Dino said:
I always thought lighting was the way to adjust exposure? In 30 years of shooting, I can't remember changing the gain structure by more than 3db in either direction very often. I'm sure an event shooter would do so more often, ditto a doc shooter, but in a narrative or any controlled lighting setup, having more than three gain or ISO settings is an answer to a question I never thought of asking.
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Get out of my head you!
 
Hello Chaps. London calling.

Please don't tell me you're trying to correct your exposure using the ISO dial. Here's a tip. First, assess your scene. If you're outdoors, go for 100 ISO, 1/50th shutter speed if you're shooting 25fps, 1/60th if you're shooting 30fps, 1/48th if you're shooting 24fps. Next, look through your viewfinder. If it's too dark, open up the aperture ring of your lens. Ifit goes to f1.8, open it up all the way to f1.8. If it is still too dark, only then do you start playing with the ISO settings. On DSLR's I have found you can still get a useable image at 1600 ISO, but, of course, less is always best. Use lights if you can.

LORD
 
ASG said:
Would you really see the difference between 1/50 and 1/75, no but it would be handy to adjust the exposure that way! :)
Click to expand...

1/50 to 1/75 is a noticeable difference, in my opinion. The only time I change shutter is to help create a certain mood for something scripted, or match the 60Hz TV panels in the US for doc work.
 
>I always thought lighting was the way to adjust exposure? In 30 years of shooting,

Try to light the Halfdome in Yosemite :-)
 
I'm certainly sensitive to the historical legacy of controlling exposure primarily with aperture adjustments, as opposed to gain or shutter. And completely agree that in a perfect world this whole debate would be solved primarily with lighting and/or ND filters. But wouldn't you say that depth of field, be it shallow or deep, has a much more profound and noticeable effect on any but the most tech-minded audience than grain structure or shutter speed (especially grain structure)? Really how many viewers are poring over our footage to find where we switched from 400 to 640 ISO on a camera like this? Yet I bet those same viewers would have a very different visceral reaction to something filmed at f1.4 vs f.4. I'm certainly not advocating going crazy with ISO adjustments, but now that we do have the option of fine tuning that as opposed to the iris, it seems like *maybe* there would be a lot of situations where if you couldn't control the lighting, ISO tweaking would force your hand a lot less, creatively speaking, than tweaking the aperture in any direction. Curious what you all think...
 
I think there's going to be a period of adjustment for those coming from the DSLR. This isn't a DSLR, it's a pro video camera. And there's tactics and habits that the DSLR folks get into, which shock and (dare I say it) horrify the video guys. And one of those is using the shutter to adjust exposure, and the other is using the gain (aka ISO) to adjust exposure. Video guys just don't do that -- ever. Gain is like the plague -- we'd rather be forced to shoot a wedding, for free, than crank up the gain. And shutter? Never. Stick it on 1/60th and glue it there.

The tools for adjusting exposure on a video camera are the iris, and the ND filters. That's how film and video have always been shot. Like I said in a different thread addressing this same subject -- you know how you change the ISO on a film camera? You have to pull out the film and change to a different film stock! So film/video guys don't adjust ISO unless it's as an absolute last resort.

Doesn't make it the empirical and only way to do it, but -- it's the workflow the camera was designed for, and it's worked out for video shooters for the last 40+ years so it does have some history behind it. Sure, it'd be great if they'd add ISO to the back wheel, and I've asked them for that. But in the meantime my suggestion is for folks to try to work with the unit the way it was designed to work, which is the way pro video cameras have always worked, and get used to setting exposure via the iris and ND filters, and to leave the ISO and shutter alone.
 
And jim posteed that while I was typing my response, and I think there's a lot of merit in that post. Only thing I disagree with is that the shutter is poison and death if someone isn't extraordinarily aware and cautious about what lights they're shooting under. Stick it on 1/60th and forget it, or risk getting ugly bands in your footage when you move under one of many types of ballasted light sources. If you want to play with ISO, go ahead; but I still say the shutter is death and should be frozen at 1/60th (NOT 1/48th!) or, in 50Hz mode, at 1/50th.
 
Let's be honest folks.... Why are we shooting with The af100, a low-bitrate camera using manual lenses? One reason, shallow dof.

On anything wider than a 50mm, if your shooting with a stop smaller than f4, your dof, IMO, isn't worth shooting on the camera. For me, I own quite a few cameras, and I chose which one I will use for each shoot or project (or if a client asks) but if I had to shoot at f4 with this cam all the time I might as well use one od my ex1s.

That said, I think I need to clarify my original post. Part of the reason I don't iris is because my zooms are canon L series an I can't iris yet. Buy still, as a doc guy, I will be changing that ISO a LOT more than I'll be changing the frame rate, and I think a lot of other people who work in availible light will too.

I still haven't had a chance to sit in a room with some charts and figure out how high I can take this af100 as far as "acceptable" noise is concerned, but between 200 and 800 seems ok to me so far.
 
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I always wondered if this kind of thinking (controlling exposure with gain/iso and/or shutter) was due to the rise of prosumer video cameras having the ability to change settings quickly. I dont know if its only a DSLR convert thing. With more and more schools dropping film and teaching video first im seeing more students or recent grads have a non film shooter mentality, basically letting the camera do a lot of the work for them.

Sorry if this is too off topic.

Edit: I was writing that while you posted Mr. Lion, it was not directed directly towards you. It was more of a response to Mr. Greens post.
 
There seems to be an assumption that noise artifacts are linear as you go up and down with the ISO. From some of the early tests I saw, this didn't seem to be the case.

Based on my experience with the GH13, dorking around with ISO willy-nilly when I'm shooting is a good way to give me (or whoever is cutting the footage) gray hair when I get into post. - Tim
 
jim_cole said:
I'm certainly sensitive to the historical legacy of controlling exposure primarily with aperture adjustments, as opposed to gain or shutter. And completely agree that in a perfect world this whole debate would be solved primarily with lighting and/or ND filters. But wouldn't you say that depth of field, be it shallow or deep, has a much more profound and noticeable effect on any but the most tech-minded audience than grain structure or shutter speed (especially grain structure)? Really how many viewers are poring over our footage to find where we switched from 400 to 640 ISO on a camera like this? Yet I bet those same viewers would have a very different visceral reaction to something filmed at f1.4 vs f.4. I'm certainly not advocating going crazy with ISO adjustments, but now that we do have the option of fine tuning that as opposed to the iris, it seems like *maybe* there would be a lot of situations where if you couldn't control the lighting, ISO tweaking would force your hand a lot less, creatively speaking, than tweaking the aperture in any direction. Curious what you all think...
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This is exactly my point. Truly, the only reason I am using an af100 is so that i can get that creamy shallow DoF, otherwise I really dont see the point of going through the hassle. At this point, there is really no decent 'one lens' solution (maybe those zuiko 2.0 lenses, which i am waiting to test), so run and gun is a fair amount more difficult than with a fixed lens or eng camera, but totally worth it if you can get that shallow cinematic DoF, but if not, well ill take an HDX900 or ex1 anytime.
 
I should also say, in reference to my original post, that I am not gaining up/down during a scene, but in between them, or when i switch EF lenses for a different focal length, and I am doing this in conjunction with a waveform for reference, and with ND both in the camera and in a mattebox, so the increments are small +3/-3, but basically, at this point, if you are shooting with L glass, this is your only option, as that kiron mount really isnt all that great.
 
Barry_Green said:
And jim posteed that while I was typing my response, and I think there's a lot of merit in that post. Only thing I disagree with is that the shutter is poison and death if someone isn't extraordinarily aware and cautious about what lights they're shooting under. Stick it on 1/60th and forget it, or risk getting ugly bands in your footage when you move under one of many types of ballasted light sources. If you want to play with ISO, go ahead; but I still say the shutter is death and should be frozen at 1/60th (NOT 1/48th!) or, in 50Hz mode, at 1/50th.
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barry, i completely agree with you about shutter, you cannot change shutter during a scene, because EVERYONE, pro or not will 'sense' that, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on ISO, I've been doing this professionally for a while (not as long as a lot of you guys, but for 10 years) and until the 5d came along, I NEVER used gain. I'd rather stick needles in my eye that go +3, and I still never use gain when I'm on an ENG rig or prosumer cam, but I really think with the 5d its a different beast, When I shoot with DSLRs I'm moving fast, using lots of available light, and above all, I want super shallow DoF, so i will do whatever it takes to get that. And when you dont have an hour to light a scene, that means going up to 1000 iso, I've shot TONS of stuff at this point on DSLRs and have yet to have one complaint of noise from a client or viewer.
 
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