Is XDCAM MPEG-2 or MPEG-4?

Based on an extended version of mov I think. The XDCAM EX Clipbrowser converts them to MXF when you dump them from the camera, combining all the metadata.
 
Is their footage captured directly to a computer with HD-SDI? Maybe even a comparison with XDCAM EX capture?
 
anyones...I've tried a variety of Google, YouTube, Vimeo searches with no luck. I've found SR11 and HV20 to Blackmagic intensity...some shots with different lenses on the EX3...but generally stock lens recorded in XDCAM EX.

The ones I saw had an even texture but seemed soft in textures (as if a Soft FX was used) and ok in crispness. They had good dynamic range though.

For comparison, the HMC150/HPX170 footage seemed better. And the Canon 5DMarkII footage in a different league.
 
If you don't tell us what your looking for, why, and what your comparing, we can't help. Trying to compare any footage compressed for the internet is pretty pointless, and doesn't give an accurate indication of native footage. Perhaps try www.convergent-design.com they have some un-compressed and unre-compressed vision last time I looked.
 
Thank your that link...this link on that site shows the issues: http://convergent-design.fileburst.com/AvD.wmv

Panavision's John Galt in presentation and articles have shown that overall image quality is a combination of all the components in a system cascaded. Lens, low pass filters, bayer filters, prisms, sensors, processing, storage. Canon's Larry Thorpe has presented that we see is the square of the MTF, edge sharpness at low frequencies, texture at mid frequencies, and less relevant for video resolution at higher refrequencies.

The Canon 5DM2 has created an eye openning experience: why are it's images so good? The oversampling sensor and in camera optics and electronics? The 40Mb/s MPEG4 Option 10 AVCHD storage (there is no live HD-SDI or HDMI output), or the glass.

There are lots of footage examples of 35mm adapters offering good DOF control and done by excellent cinematographers. That is easily compared.

There have been reviews of the years comparing varing HD camcorders--HD100/110/200, HVX200/200a/HPX170/HMC150, XH1/1s/A1/G1, etc. However, in most cases the lens is fixed; even when it is not, there are limited lens choices for the small sensors or the adapted lenses are become telephoto or extreme telephoto. None output using HDMI or HD-SDI.

I have found a clips for consumer SR11 and HV20 cameras captured over HDMI...they seemed to have pretty good sharpness and color, but were weak in textures. Clips from the 25Mb/s HMC150 vs. the 40/100Mb/s HPX170 (both sharing lens, sensors, and processing) some the image quality to be remarkably similar.

The 5DMII pictures have had both good texture and edge sharpness. However, the difference in lenses used is often apparent. The lenses used are probably better than any of the dedicated camcorders, the sensor is larger and latest technology, camera optics are probably as good as the best or better. And, the 40Mb/s AVCHD probably is capturing more image information than any of them.

I was curious how the best from Panasonic (HVX200a/HPX170/HMC150), Sony (PMW-EX1/EX3), and Canon (XH-1s/A1/G1) did if their compression was bypassed.


Canon 5D Mark II sample from Phil Holland: http://vimeo.com/2465025

SR11 to HDMI with Codec from Henry Olonga: http://vimeo.com/1082016 & http://vimeo.com/1095616


HV20 to HDMI by Bob Wallich: http://vimeo.com/636293
and by Phil Campbell: http://vimeo.com/3028191

Hopefully the opportunity to see a good camcorder's uncompressed output would be nice.
 
I've seen some 5D MKII footage, and while the DOF and richness of colour are nice, the compression is not very good and there were some pretty clear compression artifacts in graduations. The 40Mbps apparently is implemented as a pure I frame so 40Mbps doesn't go very far with 1920x1080 even with MPG4 when it is I frame. AVC-Intra uses 100Mbps and uses some very advanced encoding techniques to get very high image quality.

XDCAM EX is a compressed codec so of course it will not be as good as uncompressed from HD-SDI, compression is all about the compromise & balance in bit rate, image quality and processing power (heat/battery life).
 
DavidNJ said:
...Hopefully the opportunity to see a good camcorder's uncompressed output would be nice.
Click to expand...

Go to a high end dealer and view the live HD-SDI out on a high end monitor, its the only way. Web samples are resampled and compressed even if it was from a uncompressed source.
 
Can you post a specific example of the artifacts you are talking about?

I've had a different take on the 5DM2 clips. I see detail in the textures and overall wide dynamic range that I haven't seen in any camcorder less than $10k. Edge sharpness matches the best.

There are three issues reported:

1) The camera lacks manual gain control, so some shots drift into a high gain situation. That could introduce noise and artifacts. Many posted clips are from low light situations; they highlight the camera's low light capabilities, although exasberating the problem.

2) As with any movement in complex high texture compositions, the combination of large areas of motion and high texture content challenges the compression algorithm. MPEG-4 has has variable block sizes, whose advantage is hammered by this.

3) The camera uses a cRGB color space and saves an .mov file. This is often routed to a QT codec which misinterpets it as sRGB.

Where any of the clips you are talking about affected by one of these factors?
 
The clip was one of the samples made avaliable by DPreview, it was of a road with a white car (that looked like a Camry) comming to and passing the camera fixed POV. It was a scene with little movement other than the car.

As the car got closer I notices artefacts on the front of the bonnet, and on closer examination could see that the codec was not handeling subtle gradients well.

As you say there are many other issues with this camera as a video camera, more so than anything else the lack of real manual control. It is only a first generation of this tech so thinkgs only look good for the future. Give this camera a video type electronic shutter to allow full manual control of shutter and appature and a 10bit HD-SDI out and it will do more to stir up the market than RED One did. Could you imagine if Canon/Nikon developed a form of sRAW for 1080p & 2K, heck on that cameara they could do 4K if they really wanted too.
 
I asked the speaker from Canon if they were planning anything for a follow up to the 5DM2. He said that adding video to the 5DM2 was an after thought, and now they are overwhelmed with the response from videographers. They had no idea the response would be this large. He said the cameras are on 4 week backorder nationwide (or something like that). Interesting stuff.

I think Canon is poised to release a true video camera with a "built-in" 35mm adaptor that will use their lenses. But talking to the Canon rep, it doesn't look like it's going to happen for some time.
 
This camera redefined the market...rather than 'afterthought' I think it was more political...video and photo are different divisions.

I believe the lead time on this technology is 18-24 months. Most of the big parts (sensor, recording format, etc.) are basically in place. However, I image that sensor and a new set of 'video' 35mm lenses (same optics, video case and features) in an XH1 chassis would be the result. However, Canon probably has limited resources, and the result is more like a NAB 2011 announcement than a 2010 announcement.

10-bit HD-SDI or even live HDMI out would be nice. However, I don't think they will get to 200-400 Mb/s feeds in this price range. The capture hardware would exceed the cost of the camera...they don't make money that way.
 
I'd even give it 5 years to see a fully workable 35mm FF video camera based from these DSLRs, possibly 2 generations away but I can wait, its about when I will want one.

It will depend a lot on Nikon too, if Nikon don't try to compete in the video feature of their cameras (& just keep it at the dodgy D90 level) then Canon won't be pushed to improve their offerings etc At least Nikon don't have any other video business to protect, it could be a new market segment for them, or they could just ignore it. Only time will tell.

I wonder if the nanoFlash will input from HDMI as well as HD-SDI. I know it has some HDMI capabilities but I am not sure if it is out only.
 
The nanoFlash records from HDMI equipped
cameras, as well as cameras with HD-SDI.
Regardless of the input signal type, both HD-SDI and
HDMI outputs are available for use simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Of course, it isn't available and it is $3500. but much more practical than lugging a laptop.

I am just blown away by some low-end cam to HDMI->Cineform footage, especially compared to the $3-8k cam footage online. I am really looking to see footage from the high end cameras without the their recording compression.

As for the cameras...between Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc....someone will come to the plate. The videographer response to the 5DM2 has undoubtely reached their product planning departments. If I recall, 24p put Panasonic in the first tier.
 
Should be out pretty soon though, certainly well before we see any DSLR with full res full frame rate HDMI or HD-SDI out.

NanoFlash is looking pretty sweet with all these HDMI additions. I know US$3.5K is a lot of money for many people, myself included (especially with our current exchange rate), but it is something at that price bracket nothing else can do.

I would suggest to Convergent Design that they consider adding SDHC support to the nano as soon as they can. Even if it is a case of selecting in the menu to use CF or SDHC (so it is still a 2 slot device & not compete with XDR as a 4 slot). SDHC is becomming pretty popular and many of us now own a decent supply of SDHC media making the total cost of the unit lower if you don't need to add yet more media, and while it may be a push for some of the high bit rate codecs, cards like the Sandisk Ultra II we are using should be able to handle 100Mbps (write 15MBps = 120Mbps). Maybe full support for the Extreme III 30MBps SDHC cards would be a more reliable solution for those options).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top