Is this the nail in the coffin for Adaptor rigs?

M

Mbala

Carbonite Member
Is this the nail in the coffin for Adaptor rigs?

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2010/04/10/house-season-finale-shot-entirely-with-canon-5dmkii/

There are other indicators:

(1) Neither Zacuto nor Philip Bloom ever even mention adaptor rigs anymore.
(2) All accessories made these days are for DSLR
(3) F-STOP Academy, initialy created to train videographers, only trains in DSLR.
(4) All recent articles, comparison charts or reviews are now about DSLR cameras.
(5) No new adaptor is scheduled to be released by anybody in the future.
(6) Traffic on this adaptor forum is down to a bare minimum.

Perhaps it is time to sell those adaptor rigs on E-BAY while there's still time. Will they be worthless a year from now?
 
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Dumped my blade a few months back and now have a 7d, still use my hpx170 also, haven't looked back yet. Still have my m2 sitting in a box collecting dust.
 
Still use my HVX200 with the LEX and love the mojo no DSLR can produce (at least until I can get my hands on a Scarlet).
But yeah, 35mm adapters are a dying race.

Frank
 
I'm looking at getting a Blade with Evangleos' new relay for my Varicam. Plus I just directed a series of national commercials for one of the largest law firms in Australia on an EX1 and Letus.

http://vimeo.com/10491079 (Th two store front shots were done on a 5D - the rest on EX1)

We could have used a 7D but chose not for many reason that have mentioned on these forums. That said, I have a full zacuto rig and just sold my 7D to replace it with a 5DII. Each platform has its own merits for different uses,
 
powervideo when you say "each has its own merit", what do you mean? One is better. Pick the better one. There is no such thing as merit. Just a winner.
 
Mbala said:
powervideo when you say "each has its own merit", what do you mean? One is better. Pick the better one. There is no such thing as merit. Just a winner.
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If only life was that simple. I think you're trying to get a rise out of me. There are obvious advantages and disadvantages on both platforms that have been discussed ad nauseum both here and in the DSLR forums.
 
Yes but the bottom line is the film look for low budgets. The key issues seem to be sensitivity and weight. It seems to me the DSLR solution has the double advantage of being light enough to be hand held (which means no heavy equipment or assistants) and sensitive enough for natural lighting even at nightime (which means total freedom). The audio issues or video options really seem secondary issues next to the two big key issues.

What would be the key advantage issues of the Adaptors rig?
 
Mbala said:
Yes but the bottom line is the film look for low budgets. The key issues seem to be sensitivity and weight. It seems to me the DSLR solution has the double advantage of being light enough to be hand held (which means no heavy equipment or assistants) and sensitive enough for natural lighting even at nightime (which means total freedom). The audio issues or video options really seem secondary issues next to the two big key issues.

What would be the key advantage issues of the Adaptors rig?
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Well there you have it; you've qualified your question with the "film look for low budgets". There is no "winner"; that's why we have twenty plus different digital formats instead of a single DSLR format. I can tell you now weight has never been an issue on a low-budget film with DV cameras and I've done over twenty as an assistant director.

Same for sensitivity. Most digital cameras these days (even those using DOF adaptors) are more than sensitive for most shoots. But if I had to film a bunch of actors in darkened streets I'd have no hesitation in using a 5D to shoot with. You go with what suits the content of the production.

Audio is so, so important to any film, and especially a low-budget film. I can't believe you said it's only secondary. What can rescue crappy production values and poor camera work in a low-budget indy is great sound. Great location sound and great sync sound. Doing this with a DSLR is not impossible, just a little more difficult.

I could have shot that lawyers commercial on a 7D, but the clients and producer want to see a live split from the camera in full HD rez. You can't do that easily with a DSLR. I use DSLR's all the time and I use Varicam, DVCPRO50 and other formats when I need fast shooting in tricky situations and reliability both in media and operation.

Back to your last question, adaptors (with a suitable camera) have much less aliasing, better viewfinders, more choice of formats and codecs, proper audio connections and HD-SDI splits on most pro cameras for monitoring amongst other things. They can also be cumbersome and fiddly to operate.

I'll say it again there is no winner, just what is right for the situation.
 
There's a lot to like about the DSLR's but there's also a lot of hype. I just got one and really enjoy it, but head to the head the image doesn't have the resolution or just the the sheer color depth of my EX - Blade combo. Try underexposing your DSLR or setting the wrong color balance then bringing it back in post - so far to me it seems to fall apart.
 
Bottom line:
Canon 7D = $1200
HG10 + Adaptor + Plus lens = under $600.
That's half the price and yes, I have an upside down image, but that can be fixed. We have Toast and can convert the image. I may get Shedworx or one of the other ones (one of those programs have something built in to flip the image as it converts to ProRes).

None of these are "killers" of anything until they get into a range everyone can afford. This is a great time where most can afford something, but still most indy filmmakers can't afford everything. I could save up to get the 7d, but I'd have to get the beachtek that goes with it, which would be more money. I already have a Beachtek and don't want to get another and until I get the basic AVCHD workflow down why worry about it now.

One day I'll have the money to buy all this cool stuff, but right now I have to outfit based on what make most sense financially. In fact with Canon coming out with new stuff, the Scarlet also and other new stuff coming out (especially with things that work better for a Mac workflow) it's makes sense for me not to drop a lot of cash at this juncture trying to get the newest toy, I'm just trying to make a good film at this point. People are still shooting on DVX100s and The XL1/1s/2 and making good stuff.

-Nate
 
Mbala said:
Yes but the bottom line is the film look for low budgets. The key issues seem to be sensitivity and weight. It seems to me the DSLR solution has the double advantage of being light enough to be hand held (which means no heavy equipment or assistants) and sensitive enough for natural lighting even at nightime (which means total freedom). The audio issues or video options really seem secondary issues next to the two big key issues.

What would be the key advantage issues of the Adaptors rig?
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Sorry if don't think that "sensitive enough" is a bonus, at least as you mentioned in your post.

Lighting doesn't serve the only purpose of... Lighting, but also the purpose of making perceptible light contrast ratios falling in the specs of your camera.
Our vision can perceive a 2000:1 contrast ratio that no camera can, and you use more than just one light (Key+Fill), to simulate daylight and to compensate for the light "perception deficiencies" of your camera comparing to us humans, and that's why you must light every shot.

Besides that, and as powervideo stated that audio can make THE difference in low-bugdet films, so does lighting. Everybody seems so streesed about shallow DOF that forgot one of the basic laws of good cinematography for film like footage: GOOD LIGHTNING !!!

You can have all the DSLRs in the world but if you light your shots bad, and if you can't arrange or compose one good shot, no shallow DOF will make your footage look like film. Period.
 
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You need to compate the 10,000 rig EX1 + LETUS vs the 5D Mark II at 3000 and if the 5D at that price gets the job done, it's a no brainer.
 
Mbala said:
You need to compate the 10,000 rig EX1 + LETUS vs the 5D Mark II at 3000 and if the 5D at that price gets the job done, it's a no brainer.
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If you're going to look it that way Emir Kusturica won the Chicago Int Film Fest with a 200 USD camera!!! So why bother right???

If you compare the 5D at 3000 USD to a GH1 at 1/3 of the price and the later gets the job done, so... Where do you stand?

Every camera is capable of doing the job... But not everyone!
 
After all the dust settles from the AF100, the new Sony 35mm and whatever Canon's next big thing is (so, basically, post-2010), we'll see what a completely tricked-out EX1 package w/ adapter costs, then we'll know what's the what.

I think it's unfortunate that we continue to compare video cameras to DSLRs. It's like comparing motorcycles w/ trailers to 4-seater pick-up trucks. They're both have wheels and engines, but they couldn't be more different in application.

DSLR vs DSLR make sense. Video cam vs Video cam makes sense. 35mm adapter vs 35mm adapter makes sense, but interchanging the three is like judging an Jagpro35 vs a Canon 7D.

It's pointless.

I think because they're both so limited, comparing DSLRs to consumer cams (like, say, the HF20 or HV30) make some sense, but no DSLR is on the level of an EX, HVX, HPX, HMC etc w/ adapter (and nor should they be because, ya know, look at the price difference).

Image-wise, the Mark 5DII kills everything under 10K.

Recorder-wise, the Edirol 44/Fostex FR2LE kills everything under 800

Mic-wise, the NTG-3 (outdoors), Oktava MK12 (indoors), Countryman B3s (lav) kill everything under 700, 300 and 200 respectively.

Full purpose video camera, as of today, the EX line kills everything under 10K and I'm sure the AF100 will trump it once it's released.

Apples to apples.
 
ReneH said:
No, I think this may very well be the nail on the coffin for 35mm adapters:

http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2010/04/12/sony-shows-a-sdof-camcorder-at-nab/
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Yeah, we already tackled the death of the 35mm adapter with the AF100 announcement.

I don't think Sony's camera will compete against 35mm/prosumer/consumer cams and the AF100. I think it will compete with the likes of the RED, etc. I mentioned in a different thread that I'll bet this cam, film-ready will come in at about 12K (at best). It can't possibly be in the same price range as their newest EX cam (approx 8K).

The only way 35mm adapters stay competitive is if all of these new cameras make them obsolete (and thus ridiculously cheap to purchase used).

New 35mm adapters in 2011? I'd be surprised to see it, honestly. Will companies still be supplying them to the niche group of filmmakers who don't want to use DSLRs and who can't afford something like an AF100 or Scarlet? Probably.

The DSLR crippled the 35mm adapter. The AF100, whatever Canon's next cam is and (eventually) the Scarlet will pretty much take a sledgehammer to the knees.

What's going to be beautiful to see is all those EX1s w/ 35mm adapter going up for sale at bargain basement prices. So far nothing has really been able to really drive down the price of the EX1. These latest announcements should finally do it.
 
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