Is this the nail in the coffin for Adaptor rigs?

I don't understand. Leninelapi says the DSLR image is not as sharp as the adaptor image. Everyone else says it is too sharp. Which is it? Sharper or less sharp?
 
I am not as clued up as others on this but I will have a go from my limited understanding Mbala - the DSLRs have less resolution in video mode than the dedicated video cameras like an EX1. They can however look artificially sharper though and the aliasing I understand helps with this as well as the sharpness settings. So an EX1 plus adaptor may have more resolution than 7D or 5D especially if recorded to a nanoflash.

I can tweak the sharpness up on my Sony HC7 and although it looks sharp it is all done in camera and does not look as good as the Canon HFS10 in cinemode - which actually turns sharpness down.The canon has more inherent resolution - 900 lines and turning up the sharpness on the HC7 does not bring it closer to the Canon - it actually starts to ring and look horrible.

Anyone else..........
 
35mm adapter looks softer than DSLR to me; remember that even the area in the focus will still be shot through the GG. IMO the GG adds a sort of film grain effect.
 
This question of the sharpness of the 35mm adapter against the DSLR's has to be conditioned on both the video camera and the specific adapter being used. I've got an EX-1 and a Blade which is the sharpest combination short of a pro35 on a 2/3" cam. In that set-up there is absolutely no question that the adapter has more resolution. Its quite obvious and I've compared them carefully. However I know even an HVX 200 is much softer than an EX-1.
Having shot with a GH1L (I think that was the number - a Canon?) and a Brevis, I was disappointed in the sharpness (though I didn't know how to get the most from that camera) so your mileage may vary alot and in many cases the DSLR might be the winner.
Esp for you guys using cheaper cameras and adapters the DSLR might be sharper.
 
DSLR is sharper than adapter with EX1 . But it is dependent on you lens obviously!
Sharp is not always a good thing when we ant a filmic image, focus softness should to be intentional and pull to the sharpest image possible. But lens softness is ok for dream or beauty shots. We put on a matte box with a soft fx filter, it is too flat and sharp by itself for our uses.
Cheers
 
"DSLR is sharper than adapter with EX1 "

I don't know how you can say that with such authority Phil. My tests show exactly the opposite.
In fact somewhere on this forum I posted resolution charts that were very convincing.

Lenny Levy
 
Lenilenapi said:
"DSLR is sharper than adapter with EX1 "

I don't know how you can say that with such authority Phil. My tests show exactly the opposite.
In fact somewhere on this forum I posted resolution charts that were very convincing.

Lenny Levy
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one Lenny,

I also have the charts to prove this.

Its already pushing it to say that the 7D DSLR is sharper than an ex1 with adapter, -assuming its properly set up AND lets say the SG or ultimate.
BUT if Phil is using the cinemek as basis for his statement, then its probably true since the gg of the static cinemek diffuses the image more the the spinners and vibrators. -which is a subjective thing in the final result as to which is pleasing to look at.
 
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I use the extreme and the EX1. I know the EX1 loses quite a bit of sharpness once the adaptor is on. The extreme also has a certain graininess created by the vibrations (a sort of gg pattern). I shot blue screen with it and sharpness is not the first word which comes to mind. It is in focus but no more than necessary.
 
Mbala said:
I use the extreme and the EX1. I know the EX1 loses quite a bit of sharpness once the adaptor is on. The extreme also has a certain graininess created by the vibrations (a sort of gg pattern). I shot blue screen with it and sharpness is not the first word which comes to mind. It is in focus but no more than necessary.
Click to expand...

Since i developed 3 adapters myself, including one with a redrock GG, I have done hundreds of repeatable tests on various charts in various configurations since 2004. I know what I'm looking for in these chart tests that I do, -and its not just pixel peeping to but to determine how to avoid problems in our optics that we use.

I have also been testing the DSLRs that we have from D90, D5000, and 7D. -also comparing these with other cmos videocams we have, like the sony HD1000. They have similar telltale aliasing issues, though not in the same amounts.

What I have seen from the DSLRs are perceived sharpness. BUT its not a "valid" sharpness since the aliasing is causing the cmos chip not to return an accurate renderings of the image. So taking what it can record accurately versus what adapter+camera are returning. The videocam+adapter is still sharper. -but I still find the DSLR image "useful" for my needs.

AND ALSO-- since the image sharpness of the DSLRs are not the only thing in play here, we have convenience, being so light. DOF control minus the bulkiness of the big adapter and low light capability, all these stack against my personal decision why I'm using the DSLR more than the camera+adapter combo.

As to The "certain graininess" you mentioned, it varies from lens to lens, depending on f stop.

But I wouldnt go so far to say its sharper than a properly calibrated videocam + adapter combo, especially the EX1+ extreme or ultimate or blade. I would probably just say that DSLRs are sharp enough to be useful for me.

I can post those charts if you like.
 
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kicap said:
please do so teddy...
Click to expand...

Kicap,

I collated my chart test and pics. So here it is. This is compressed jpeg, but you can picture the results.

The 50mm f1.4 nikon lens was at 2.8. On the Canon 7D the iso was at 125 shutter at 50.
On the JVC it was at 48 at 720 24P

I'll post the individual charts after.

1271607005.jpg
 
Here are the full charts of the test.

For the JVC with my homemade adapter at 24P 720 with nikon lens 50mm f1.4 set at 2.8
1271607515.jpg


The Canon 7d at 1080 24P with the same nikon lens set at 2.8. Shutter at 50, ISO at 125.
SHARPNESS : 0 CONTRAST : 0
1271607764.jpg


And for the sake of comparision to another cmos chiped camcorder at AVCHD also albiet with a different implementation. This is from the tiny palmcorder CX100.
1271607905.jpg


So, a lot of people would say, "we don't shoot charts." thats true, but I do to test my tools as to what it can do and know its limitations so I can avoid surprises like this shot I did;
1271609149.jpg


I hope these tests won't discourage. But rather help you avoid and overcome these situations.
After having done this, I went on to do paid and professional, high profile work with the 7D. Its just important that you know.
 
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Here's a Link to some charts I posted a few months ago comparing Canon 7D with EX-1 & Blade also some HVX charts (without adapter) which show that the they become a lot closer with the softer HVX right away. In fact If I can dig up some old HVX _+ Letus charts I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Canon is sharper. So the quality of your adapter rig clearly makes a difference in the comparison as Ted's charts show.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=188873

By the way these Canon shots were probably shot with default settings so the detail might be higher than I would use now. Don't know how that would affect the chart. Maybe I'll test with my T2i now that I own one.

I have some head shot comparisons somewhere if I can find them
 
It seems that the DSLR created such a distinguish aliasing effect on all of the chart items!!
Correct me if I am wrong...
 
Ted,

I do have Nikon D5000 but never really make use of it for video so can't really tell whether it has this aliasing effect (might be less than the Canons). Hmmm... My Sony HDR-FX1 + SGBlade seems to be my favorite still.

One more quick questions Ted, do have a shoulder support or you always use tripod? If you have used one, what is recommendations? (SORRY IF THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE TO POST SUCH QUESTION. Just want to get quick opinion).

Thanks for the sample footage!!! really helps most of my DSLR friends..hehehehehe
 
Lenilenapi said:
By the way these Canon shots were probably shot with default settings so the detail might be higher than I would use now. Don't know how that would affect the chart. Maybe I'll test with my T2i now that I own one.

I have some head shot comparisons somewhere if I can find them
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think its default due to strong contrast. I updated the posts above to indicate the 7d settings of SHARPNESS at 0 and the CONTRAST at 0 in my chart test.
 
kicap said:
Ted,

I do have Nikon D5000 but never really make use of it for video so can't really tell whether it has this aliasing effect (might be less than the Canons). Hmmm... My Sony HDR-FX1 + SGBlade seems to be my favorite still.

One more quick questions Ted, do have a shoulder support or you always use tripod? If you have used one, what is recommendations? (SORRY IF THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE TO POST SUCH QUESTION. Just want to get quick opinion).

Thanks for the sample footage!!! really helps most of my DSLR friends..hehehehehe
Click to expand...

We have the d90 and D5000 and they are much worse.

1. Theyre only 720p
2. codec of mjpeg is very lossy.
3. aside from the aliasing that you can see in the 7d chart, the nikons also have stairstepping in the image. (don't make me post the chart please... I'm already overquota. :-) )
4. lack of manual control of exposure for video.

As for my accessories I WOULD NEVER SAY TO YOU ZACUTO, I make them all myself.
Heres a link the supports and shoulder mount;
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=205028

also gearless follow focus;
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185853

mattebox;
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=140312

finder:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185852


SAVE YOUR MONEY AND MAKE EM YOURSELF.
 
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