Is this cam still worth getting?
- Thread starter demoboy
- Start date
With an external recorder. The AF100 has both HDMI and SDI outs.
Maybe and yes.
It records all the formats you've mentioned.
It is worth getting if you can use it to produce media at a profit. Considering its low cost and ability to work exceptionally fast and fuss-free, it can easily pay for itself in a job or two at typical video production rates.
It records all the formats you've mentioned.
It is worth getting if you can use it to produce media at a profit. Considering its low cost and ability to work exceptionally fast and fuss-free, it can easily pay for itself in a job or two at typical video production rates.
demoboy
Well-known member
Thanks. I'm basically looking for which recorders support Panasonic's 1080/24PsF to take advantage of the uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 feed. Looks like it might only be Panasonic proprietary recorders using the AVC-Ultra codecs. Can anyone confirm this? I just want to take advantage of the uncompressed out feed via HD-SDI cable.
Barry_Green
Moderator
There's nothing proprietary about the AF100's outputs. It outputs industry-standard signals. Any recorder that supports HD-SDI and/or HDMI should be able to properly receive and record it.
demoboy
Well-known member
Thanks Barry. I ask because back in 2011 I shot with a NanoFlash receiving the SDI feed, and the AF100 at the time (with the earliest firmware) could only output a 720p/50 signal. There was no 1080p out in that year. Therefore, now, with the AF100A and its price and the latest firmware, I've been trying to find videos on Youtube with the 100A and any recorder taking in the 1080p/24 signal. Any links you could forward me relating to the setup to capture 1080p from the 100A would be greatly appreciated. Panasonic's specs states that uncompressed out is only via SDI, not HDMI.
[TABLE="class: specTable, width: 875"]
[TR]
[TD="class: specTopic c28 fs14 bold"]HD/SD-SDI[/TD]
[TD="class: specDetail c28 fs14"]Connector: BNC x1 (0.8 V [p-p], 75Ω)
59.94 Hz formats: 1080/60i, 1080/24PsF, 720/60p, 480/60i
50 Hz formats: 1080/50i, 720/50p, 576/50i[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: specTopic c28 fs14 bold"]HDMI[/TD]
[TD="class: specDetail c28 fs14"]Connector: HDMI TypeA terminal x1 (VIERA Link not supported)
59.94 Hz formats: 1080/60p, 1080/60i, 720/60p, 480/60p
50 Hz formats: 1080/50p, 1080/50i, 720/50p, 576/50p[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1080/24PsF is what I'm after. I just need to know a list of recorders that can receive that ''24PsF''
Igelkott Film
Well-known member
I would wait and get blackmagic video assist.
demoboy
Well-known member
You my friend are a blessing. The fact that I didn't sell my U3 95mbs cards from my previous Blackmagic Pocket camera, this is what I'm after! Yes it supports 1920 x 1080PsF 23.98/24
Barry_Green
Moderator
There is no 1080/60p out, no. That can't be done on HD-SDI. But the AF100 has always been able to output 1080/24PsF and 1080/30PsF over its SDI port.
The AF100A adds an ability to output 10-bit (although it's synthesized from the internal 8-bit processing).
HDMI has always been 100% uncompressed, just as the SDI is. And HDMI is the only way to get 1080/60p out.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
There's absolutly no reason to record externally from the AF100 unless you need Prores or DNxHD because the image quality wont be any better than the internal recording.
demoboy
Well-known member
Thanks Barry. Since this post I've came across some forums where I saw your name back from 2011. =) I do recall your handbook too from a past HPX170 I used to own. Too bad Panasonic doesn't do this anymore. I prefer SDI in all cases as I like to run the cables throughout the studio. Have you ever came across any detailed report regarding this 10-bit ''smoothing'' and what it can be compared to? I think it's pretty bold for Panasonic to even state that if it's not a true 10-bit out signal.
demoboy
Well-known member
Really? 4:2:0 8-bit internal quality is going to look the same as 4:2:2 8-bit 100-200mbps external (or with 10-bit smoothing)? I plan to do some serious grading in post.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I've used the AF100 and compared internal vs external recording and it's the internal processing that limits the quality. You wont gain anything by recording externally. The image is on par with a Canon 5D mkIII when it comes to detail with the difference that the AF100 smears more. Expect to see 1080 recordings to resolve about 720p.
David W. Jones
Veteran
demoboy
Well-known member
Wait you're saying the AF100 AVCHD 2.0 is the same as the FS100 quality codec where people said you didn't need an external recorder?
Barry_Green
Moderator
The FS100 uses AVCHD, which is the same codec the AF100 uses.
But no, what we're saying is -- well, before the AF100 came out, many people kept saying as to how they'd "need" an external recorder. I did some testing, Osslund did some testing, several of us did our own tests and came to the conclusion that no, you really don't "need" an external recorder, external recordings looked about as good as the internal recordings did.
Now, there is a difference -- the external recordings are 4:2:2, and that makes a small difference. It's easily seen on a color chart, but it's not easily seen in regular footage. In the end, I don't think too many people ever really bothered with an external recorder on the AF100; it was an expense and a hassle that didn't provide much real-world benefit (unless, as Osslund said, you need to record directly to ProRes or something like that.)
Mitch Gross
Veteran
To be fair, the advantage of an external recorder does come up fairly quickly if you plan to grade the image much in post. If you manipulate the color very much at all you will quickly run into banding issues with the internal recording as it is limited to 4:2:0, but an external recorder gets 4:2:2, which has significantly more color detail info. But if you are a mostly what you shoot is it person, then there will be little to no difference.
If you are at all considering adding an on camera monitor then I would highly suggest getting one with a built in recorder. They are inexpensive enough and could be useful for other cameras in the future. I humbly suggest the excellent Odyssey7, which will record the 108024psf signal from the AF100 and also sports an excellent OLED monitor. It has exposure tools and focus tools that greatly enhance its use as a monitor over more basic recorders. I am a bit partial as I work for the manufacturer, but there's lots of info online.
If you are at all considering adding an on camera monitor then I would highly suggest getting one with a built in recorder. They are inexpensive enough and could be useful for other cameras in the future. I humbly suggest the excellent Odyssey7, which will record the 108024psf signal from the AF100 and also sports an excellent OLED monitor. It has exposure tools and focus tools that greatly enhance its use as a monitor over more basic recorders. I am a bit partial as I work for the manufacturer, but there's lots of info online.
demoboy
Well-known member
Thanks Mitch. I have been looking at some external recorders as of late, and those which can use realtime LUT profiles. Can a LUT be recorded in realtime or do most just apply the profile reference?
Mitch Gross
Veteran
The Odyssey7 has preset LUTs, the same preset LUTs that are in the Odyssey7Q+. But the Odyssey7Q+ also allows one to load in custom 3D-LUTs created in programs such as Resolve and LUTcalc (anything that outputs a standard .cube format). Currently the LUTs are for monitoring only and are not available to be "baked" into a recording. But this will be added in the future.