Is there an DOF-enhancement plugin ?

N

ndquan

Member
Of course, I have searched everywhere and it seems that there is no real DOF-enhancement plugin.

In my opinion , if I were a graphical computer expert , I would make such a software based on the following rules.

Condition : the video must already have good DOF

Process :

1/ Comparing contrast to detect the area in best focus (AF technology in DSLR camera these days)

2/ Except the detected area in good focus, other areas will be blurred with a factor of n

So we can master the DOF on the computer without shooting the video with very expensive lens.

What do you think of this ?
 
Last edited:
This is my example .

(I am sorry that I just picked up this picture randomly on Google and edited as an example)

73572887.jpg



In this example , I used simple Photoshop Gaussian Blur Filter. It was different somehow with my idea (proportional blurring , depending on the original blur degree of a given area.

(sorry for my poor English, which may make you misunderstand)
 
Last edited:
That is awesome, If someone could write a Final Cut Pro plug-in that would do that I would buy it. I am useless with rotoscoping and all the stuff needed to do that manually.

Too bad Graham Nattress is so busy with RED code, he wrote some good stuff way back and understands video on a pixel level. If there is a way to make it work semi-automatically then one of the better plug-in coders should be able to make it work.

Look into plug-ins that are already available and determine who might be best to tackle this and make a suggestion. Who knows right?

Now you still have to be careful when shooting to make this scenario possible. Use Nd filters to be wide open to get your best chance at focus fall off and go from there.
 
Wouldn't that require you to mask everything you want in focus/out of focus?

I guess you'd have to weigh the time that would take and what that would cost you (including purchasing the plug-in) against what it would cost to buy or rent a fast lens that would do that automatically on location while shooting. With a fast lens you also get the added bonus of light sensitivity.

The use of a plug-in like that might be very limited as well if you want it to look accurate, since the amount of blur would have to be decided based on how far away from the camera everything is. For example, the girl in the center of that photo would be in focus, and the girl to the right should be sharper than the boy on the left but more blurred than the girl in the center etc.

But if you do a closeup on someone's face but don't have a shallow DOF lens and you discover in post you need to distinguish it from the background, and the background isn't as complicated as that photo, I could certainly see the use for a plug-in like that.
 
As of right now (and I am by no means an expert, just thinking) I don't see how a computer is going to "figure out" what should be in focus and what shouldn't be based off contrast detection. Blurring because of a short depth of field isn't on or off, it gradually goes from in to out of focus based on physical and mathematical parameters that can very greatly within a shot.

Until we get cameras that can record z-depth information to be passed onto a computer that could use this info to select areas that should be in focus and how the focus falls off as we move into other areas in the frame, i think most attempts as doing what you are describing will have less then ideal results.
 
ndquan said:
Of course, I have searched everywhere and it seems that there is no real DOF-enhancement plugin.
Click to expand...

ndquan said:
Condition : the video must already have good DOF
Click to expand...

ndquan said:
What do you think of this ?
Click to expand...

What do I think?

1. From your comments, it appears that you seem to equate GOOD DOF to mean SHALLOW DOF.

2. It appears that you also believe that BAD DOF (aka deep focus) should be "fixed" to be GOOD DOF.


This leads me to think that you are:

A. Incredibly ignorant

B. Not respectful of other filmmakers

C. Part of the small contingent of new filmmakers that are spitting on the work of over 100 years of filmmaking.


I am absolutely sick to DEATH of people who have zero understanding of cinematography trying to FIX things that aren't broken. Shallow DOF is NOT BETTER than deep focus. They are creative choices when employed by people who know what the hell they are doing.

If you lack the tools or skills to develop the type of frame you want, the answer is not a plug in. Buy a friggin book, or take a class and learn to shoot.


[Mod: Feel free to moderate as required]
 
There are a number plugins for photoshop, AE and others for just this sort of thing.
To my mind defocusing the background is the "cheapest" way to direct your viewers attention.
That is the directors job. To direct the attention of viewer.
Happy Shooting
 
PerroneFord said:
What do I think?

1. From your comments, it appears that you seem to equate GOOD DOF to mean SHALLOW DOF.

2. It appears that you also believe that BAD DOF (aka deep focus) should be "fixed" to be GOOD DOF.


This leads me to think that you are:

A. Incredibly ignorant

B. Not respectful of other filmmakers

C. Part of the small contingent of new filmmakers that are spitting on the work of over 100 years of filmmaking.
Click to expand...
I agree with points 1 and 2, but not A, B and C.

What ndquan is talking about here (I think, correct me if I'm wrong here) is essentially not re-splitting a log after you've already chopped it with a blunt axe instead of sharpening the axe or learning how to chop properly.
I think basically what this is, is potentially a new tool that would let you fit a log into the fire place if you find out in retrospect that you cut it too big with your axe.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

It's a new tool, and like any new tool it offers up new possibilities if used correctly.

Like Autotuning.

Wait. Scratch everything I just said. :D
 
Nobody needs to be so harsh of an idea just because it is a "fix it in post" solution. This type of thing could be welcome if used appropriately, and if abused would be no worse than shooting an entire film at 50mm 1.4.

There are all kinds of people jumping through hoops to find a simple method to achieve an out of focus background. The degree of which is dependent on the type of shot used, close, medium etc. For this sort of thing to look organic it needs more than simple gaussian blur, but rather a manipulation of circles of confusion. There is no reason why a computer couldn't detect this, find the soft focus circles and make bigger and softer. In a natural falloff the circles are bigger the farther they are from sharp focus plane so it could still be gradual. Ofcourse you'll never get correct bokah from a small camera with a 4 blade aperture as the circles are diamond shape, unless in the rendering stage this could also be manipulated. Something to think about.

I actually prefer deep focus and embrace the benefits of the small chip cameras, but there are times when a glamour close-up would be nice, and the ability to easily design this in post rather than pulling out another camera, or rigging up lens adapters would be beneficial. It can be done as shown with complex rotoscoping and masking/blurring, but if it could be done with auto detection of focal planes it would be much easier.
 
dop16mm said:
Nobody needs to be so harsh of an idea just because it is a "fix it in post" solution.
Click to expand...

Don't misunderstand. I am not harsh because this is a fix-it-in-post solution. That kind of thing is just fine by me. I am harsh because the entire PREMISE is a slap in the face to cinematography. Oh, your footage is deep focus. Let me fix that to something BETTER.

Had this been approached from the perspective of, "Hey, if you're in a bind and can't get the background blurred out like you might like, this could be a possible solution." It's not offered as a creative tool. It's offered as a way to fix something that isn't broken.

Shallow DOF is good, shallower DOF must be better!

Rubbish.
 
Nektonic said:
I've decided that I'm going to just shoot everything out of focus for the penultimate shallow DOF look.
Click to expand...

Make sure you get the latest $2500 "L" glass so you can call it "art". Because if you shoot it with the cheap $800 non-L glass, you're just a hack who doesn't know how to shoot.
 
PerroneFord said:
Make sure you get the latest $2500 "L" glass so you can call it "art". Because if you shoot it with the cheap $800 non-L glass, you're just a hack who doesn't know how to shoot.
Click to expand...
I resent that.


I shoot with L, and I'm a hack who doesn't know how to shoot. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
PerroneFord said:
Make sure you get the latest $2500 "L" glass so you can call it "art". Because if you shoot it with the cheap $800 non-L glass, you're just a hack who doesn't know how to shoot.
Click to expand...

See, that's the brilliant part of my plan. Due to everything being out of focus, I don't need a fancy camera or expensive lenses, just proper exposure and 24p.
 
i think everyone missed the fact that english is not the op's first language and he was trying to say there would need to be a shallow dof to start with for this to work and he was looking for a way to make it shallower...not good vs bad dof.
-k-
 
Such a plug-in I think would never look natural because applying a simply blur will not correctly replicate the bokeh of the background. Things like light sources look very differently when they're out of focus versus in focus, and part of that is due to the lens and aperture use.
 
I am sorry that I do not know how to express my thought because of my poor English. In my opinion, what PerroneFord judged me was exaggerated .

I have a Panasonic GH1 and a G-Vario 14-42mm lens kit.

I never feel satisfied with the DOF in the video shot by this system . To have shallower DOF , I had to stand back further from the objects , minimize the aperture (down to F/3.5) and maximize the zoom.

However, that is still not satisfactory for me. The DOF seemed not as good as what could be shot with a lens F/1.7 or lower aperture. These kinds of lens are so expensive to my budget, and my GH1 is a Micro Fourth Thirds system, which makes me have less choices for a compatible lens.

Therefore, what I meant "good focus" was just to distinguish

- A video with too deep DOF , such as what shot by a handycam.

FROM

- A video with obvious DOF but the DOF is still not very shallow. The plugin can help us to shallowen the DOF .

(please see my illustrated example. The original picture's DOF is already obvious , but I wanted to make it look more shallow).

So I thought of a plugin as I described at the begin of the topic. If there is such a plugin , I can make my GH1-shot video have as shallower DOF as I desire.

Hereby I did not say about this idea as a "DOF generator" but I labeled this idea as "DOF-enhancement". It can work automatically without manually masking or something like that.

73572887.jpg



This supposed plugin may not work with this kind of picture (very deep DOF)

Canon%20IXUS.jpg



The main thing motivated me to think of such idea was that I know in DSRL camera , there was a technology which could help the camera to detect objects in focus (autofocus). This AF technology is described somewhat as "contrast comparison" . I think it can be applied to picture with obviously shallow DOF to isolate the area in focus and the area out of focus. The area out of focus can be process by blurring to simulate shallowER DOF.

 
Last edited:
I'm just trying to figure out what this thread is doing in the Film Discussion forum...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top