Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra Cash?

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emptymorrow

New member
Hello,
I'm going to buy one of the Sony HDV cameras but I'm not sure if the Feature bump of the Z1 is worth the extra cash.

The 40 new features in the Z1 are nice but the extra several thousand dollars seems a bit excessive.

I've heard the FX1 has some serious power issues with external audio inputs. This takes out the BeachTek work around.

Can anyone with first hand experience comment on this issue?
Would you buy the FX1 if you could do it all over or would you shell out more bucks for the Z1?

Also, are there huge problems with time code or is this an NLE I/O problem.

Thanks in advance for the help,
M ;D
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

I'd but the DVX100A

But thats just me. The question that you need to answer is:

What are you going to do with this camera?
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

reality :-)
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Man you guys gotta check your grammer. I can't figure out what the heck is going on in these posts. I can forgive those non native speaking DVX user members, but John, are you going to sit on the DVX or what? :)
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Since i am not cristian and you are not a pop - i dont need any one forgiveness - you can just say hay man do a spell check - and i can say sorry pal i am to lasy , 8)
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Honestly, I don't think I would ever use the audio on either the FX1 or Z1. The compression is just horrid. The DVX absolutely blows the FX1/Z1 away in this.
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

i have some news to you , the z-1 sounds not wors then the dvx in dv mode , and it has much flexible audio input
not that it come close to the 744 but it defently suppirior to the dvx- sony did one good thing and as alwais blew on the other - about the picture quality i dont want to say anything ,just that my dvx is looking for a new home
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Hey emptymorrow.  I'm new to the forum too but have been doing video and production since the DV era began.

I own both so I'll try to give you an unbiased opinion.. (which seem to be hard to find here in this forum) :) (inserted smiley later.. was not meant to "stir the pot")

Keep in mind everthing is relative to what you are trying to accomplish.

In all honesty the FX1/Z1 footage is amazing.  You really need to see it on a HD Monitor to believe it.  The extra functionality on the Z1 to me is not worth the extra 2 grand, but again depends on your application.

FX1 Major setbacks are no downconvert to 4x3 from HDV 16x9, no programmable timecode and no XLR audio.  To me those are not worth 2 grand but again, depends what you are doing.  A beachtek will work fine... mini connection to the FX1 and away you go.   If your mics are powered great if not Beachtek box with phantom is a must.  Sony did a really great job on both cams. (haven't used the Z1 yet but just a higher end version my FX1.. which is great)

For me there is too much buzz about 24P.  Have never really used it except for test footage.  The panasonic picture is great overall and the functionality of the cam is superb expecially if you like to do a lot of manul control.  Alas, at the end of the day it is still 720x480 SD MiniDV footage.  This was enough to make me get a Sony cam and no regrets.

Timecode issues at the moment are due to lack of 3rd party support of NLE's and are not format related.  I'm sure 70 - 80 pecent of some of the editing issues will be fixed during NAB or in a couple months.

Unless you plan to do a lot of musical recordings, the FX1 audio is great.  For dialogue, which I do a lot of, you can't tell the difference between the compressed HDV audio and standard 48K audio on the DVX.  If you are doing larger productions with mutiple sources, you may want to do audio externally anyways... (whether you got the DVX or the FX1).

Have had my Sony since December... no regets.  If you wait around the corner for the next thing from panasonic in this price range, you could be waiting for abit.

Good luck with your decision.
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Thanks for all the helpful info.
I've had a JVC Gy 500 since the camera was first released.
Then Upgraded to a GY 5000.
I love the camera and the image is amazing but it's too big to do what I want now.
I've used the DVX100 and the PD170 and I love the size of those cameras.
The FX1 and Z1 are the right size and have great features.
But I've heard a lot of users have had problems with the beach tek work around and wanted some first hand advice.

Thanks again to all of you who pitched in your comments,
M
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

[quote author=The_Video_Guy link=board=sony;num=1106978698;start=0#7 date=01/29/05 at 09:06:15]
I own both so I'll try to give you an unbiased opinion.. (which seem to be hard to find here in this forum)[/quote]

OK, that's about the fourth insult I've seen you lob at the membership of this board in as many posts.
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

LOL 'But'

Sorry. ::) ;D
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Video Guy, I'm about to do an indie and we wanna shoot it in HD for $40,000.  I can get the Z1 if I want but please don't tell me it's no better than the FX1.  Cause I'll take the beachtek off of my VX2K and slap it on the FX1 if the pix are the same.  Downconverting, all that, really the same?
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

No matter what, the z1 is a good camera, i have de DVX100A and the only camera I could think about buying is the Z1... Ive try it, its beautifull (mine too, but we are not talking about the DVX here)
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

The Z1 has identical lens and CCD blocks as compared to the FX1. The Z1 adds the option of HyperGain, and an additional CinemaTone Gamma option. But if you set them on equal settings, the Z1 will perform identically to the FX1.

The Z1 also has the option of CineFrame 25 and also SD PAL, which the FX1 doesn't.
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

[quote author=TimeKoder13 link=board=sony;num=1106978698;start=0#11 date=02/06/05 at 20:43:33]Video Guy, I'm about to do an indie and we wanna shoot it in HD for $40,000.  I can get the Z1 if I want but please don't tell me it's no better than the FX1.  Cause I'll take the beachtek off of my VX2K and slap it on the FX1 if the pix are the same.  Downconverting, all that, really the same?[/quote]

Pretty much much the same as far as CCD and lens... identical. Like Barry has mentioned there are a few other options on the Z1 which give it it's "pro" recognition... XLR & PAL/NTSC being the major upgrade. It does have another cinema tone which is nice but I've heard that it is too unatural and crushes blacks really bad. The one on the FX1 seems pretty good to me and if you know what you are doing then you could stick to shooting optimal setting and doing color corrections in post. Set the zebra peaking to 80 and don't over expose and you should be ok.

I think depending on your future application, shooting 50i (CF25) vs 60i (CF 30) (no CF24... garbage...) should probably be your first decision which would basically decide for you which cam you need to buy. Internal downconvertion in the cam is basically identical but as Barry also mentioned you are "PAL"less with the FX1. If you are going for the "film look", while others may tell you that de interlacing and what not is a bad idea, doesn't take away from the fact that it can be done quite well with the right tools. (read around and do a bit of reseach on that) If you feel a future HD version will be required (as a nice to have or just because) then consider the Z1 as a bigger tool belt in a sense vs the FX1. For a few extra G's... it might not be a bad option for greater flexibility sake in the future... but to answer you question quality wise... 60i on Z1 vs 60i on FX1 is identical... hyper"grain" is a marketing scam... Nightshot would have been better... (or both for that matter).

And if you do decide to buy one, do yourself a favor and shoot some test material in HD with one and check it out on a CRT HD Television with 1080i if you can..... mmmmm..... beauuuutiful!!! You won't regret getting either one... and even if you do, sell it on ebay. ;D
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

" I'm about to do an indie and we wanna shoot it in HD for $40,000."

Instead of buying the Z1 rent an SDX900 for 3 weeks.
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

But an SDX wouldn't be HD. They specifically said they want to do it in HD.

You could always try to hire an owner/operator. Call someone like Mike Caporale and see what he'd charge you to DP your film for three weeks, using his VariCam.
 
Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Re: Is the Z1 Feature Bump ReallyWorth the Extra C

Thanx guys, been away haggling with the EP of the project trying to squeeze an extra $10 grand out of him. Thought about the sdx but the total budget is 40, not the shooting budget. We're trying to do 15 days, I'm trying to get the "money people" to understand that murphy's law will happen. They don't wanna hear me say well it might be more like 20-25 days or that they need 15% contingency laying around for rain/snow, etc. I said it over and over, "things aren't as simple as they sound." Of course no one listened. And now that all the hook-ups from "my man's got a club we can use" to "my momma's a caterer" have fallen through...well you know the rest. Funny thing, my buddy came up for a 3 day weekend from Florida 10 days ago to "finalize" the budget. He's been juggling the blue sweater and the white thermal top ever since. All I know is I'm not loaning him any underwear. Living in Oblivion was never truer.
 
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