F55: is the red 18-85 a bad choice for documentary shooting with the f55

dracalat said:
I think lens manufacturers are missing a trick here. Seeing the amount of lighting cameramen who are trading their ENG cameras for S35mm sensor cams, I wonder why Canon, Fujinon, Angenieux and the likes aren't targeting that market. I realise the laws of physics can't be bent and so I don't expect a S35 lens with the same reach and size as a 2/3" lens, but I'm sure they could work on something that offered a performance in between the Cabrio and the Sony SCLZ18X140.

I find they put too much effort in developing sub T3 zooms, when in reality many of us would happily trade a bit of lens speed for more compactness and reach. I would settle for a T4 (or T4 1/2...or even T5.6!) constant aperture, a variable focal length of 15/20mm - 150/200mm and a similar size to the Cabrio (preferably a bit smaller). I'm not a fan of doublers, but they could always add that for whenever you need the extra reach.

I know such lens wouldn't be popular around film sets, but many owner operators who work on TV and corporate would buy them in a heart beat.
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Agree 1000% !
 
I'm considering renting the red 18-85mm for an upcoming shoot with the F5, and was wondering if i will need support rails for the lens mount?

Camera will be on a tripod so no handheld.
 
Gizmosgadget said:
Hello.

I'm in the same boat. I'm looking at picking up an F55 in the next few weeks and wanted an ENG style lens other than the Cabrio. Sony has the SCL-Z18X140. It's a 14X lens that will take you from 18 to 252mm. It's also a powered zoom. If you add the CBKDCB01 power zoom control, you can use the servo capabilities of the lens. I've used a Fujinon zoom demand for years and just can't part with it. This is the perfect setup for run and gun scenarios. The lens is just shy of $10k. The zoom control is $1,400. Not exactly cheap, but a more affordable alternative to the Cabrio, and a lot more functional than DSLR lenses.
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I still own the Sony SCL-Z18X140 and frankly although at first I was quite doubtful about because of too many negative post on this forum, ( mainly from people who didn't seem to own or had not used the lens ), it has proven to have been a very good purchase decision.
It's matched working with other "cinema" lenses on multi-camera shoots very well and even though my background is solidly in cinema style shooting I have found much to my surprise the auto functions very useful at times.
Ok it's on the slow size, but for it's size and weight for the focal lengths it's a great option that's worth serious consideration. It's sharp without looking "video" and I've found it gives very pleasant skin tone reproduction. So, there's been very little for me not to like about it. I've never used the powered zoom on a shoot, but I do use it for re-framing sometimes, handy, no problems there either.

I don't shoot ENG jobs but have used the lens on documentary style shoots and have found it's range to be extremely useful. The SCL-Z18X140 with it's available auto functions I think would be a good one for you to seriously consider.

The second lens in the kit is the RED 18-50. This too is a very handy lens indeed and I find i use it a lot. It's replaced a kit of primes without too much regret. i am told that it's not as well constructed mechanically as it's more recent cousin the 17-50 but I've had no issues over the 3-4 years of ownership. It's optical performance I found to be very good too across it's range. For ENG shoots where you tend to work close I think the 18-50 or the 17-50 could be a good one to have. It's lightweight and compact and all in all not much to grumble about if you want a "cinema" style of lens for that type of work.
 
Chris Lawes said:
what is the second lens you were referring to? "and an 18 - manual" 18-? would love to know of a 18-something manual aperture nikon zoom to look couple with the 28-85.
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Sorry an 18 to .. 18.. a prime!

I have various setups depending on the mayhem that I will encounter. (less mayhem = more time for lens changes)

28-85 and speed booster - my 'one lens solution'.

18prime and 35-70 zoom - my 'two lens solution'

It happens that my 18mm is a little out of favour at the moment - I got some shi_tto 10-24 Stigma and I tend to use that not the 18 prime.

There is a weird reason for this.. the 10-24 is physically longer and less likely to see my monitor/hands in shot. With the physically short 18 I have to move the camera forwards on my rig which slows down lens changes. I did find the 10-24 also good as I was finding 24 long enough to do a mid shot PTC.

--

I have recently shot my biggest doc ever, my lenses were

Daytime.. 10-24, 28-85, 35-70 (great macro), 50-300
..and for Night I switched to 24prime+booster,50 85 primes

I did push the client to rent me Canon 17-120 but no budget. In hindsight would it have been worth it? I dunno - I did do a lot of lens changes - if the canon zoom had a build in doubler, or the centre crop was enabled, probably, but without those things it would have been off the camera a lot.. and is slower than the lenses I had. I also dont know how close the focus is, I had to film a lot of small stuff for which the nikkor 35-70 is a king. I would only want a big eng lens like that canon if I literally never took if off the camera.

S
 
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I'm using Red Pro, all the way. 18-50 and 50-150 on my F5. Both Reds are superb, parfocal, beautiful picture. The 50-150 doesn't have a filter thread on the front, that's the only drawback. VAriable ND's for a 4x4 mattebox are $600, just to be forewarned. Still cheaper than a cabrio. Aperture and zoom rings are geared and in the same position for both lenses, so, changeout and keeping my servo's in the same place works perfectly. These Reds are mechanically a wee bit sensitive and need to be treated with some care. But then, optically they're just wonderful. I looked at the Red 18-85, finally decided that lens was just way too massive to be used anywhere but with sticks.
 
The Red 18-85 needs support. And some folks have issues, depending on which follow focus you are using.

With support and tidbits you are looking at around 13 pounds on the front of your camera.
 
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bill totolo said:
Has the TLS/Nikon been officially released?
http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/10/01/ibc-2014-video-tls-nikon-24-70mm-f2-8-cine-converted-lens/

http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/10/01/ibc-2014-video-tls-nikon-24-70mm-f2-8-cine-converted-lens/
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Yep, you can order them through ProKit in the UK: http://www.prokit.com/categories/Camera-Lenses/PL-Mount-Lenses/ (down the bottom of the page). 6500 Pounds for the 80-200mm and 7500 pounds for the 24-70mm.

The Aussie dollar is so rubbish at the moment, it's not THAT much cheaper than something like the Zeiss Compact Zooms (which are the obvious competitors to the TLS), so they don't hold a lot of appeal for me. But compared to the USD, you can basically have both TLS lenses for the price of one of the Compact Zooms - which starts to get very interesting.
 
ryaninoz said:
I am considering the red 18-85 zoom. Good coverage and reasonably fast. Second hand they can be bought for around 6000 which is really good considering the fujinon cabrio is $ 38000 and it's only marginally longer. Does anyone have any experience with this lens. It does look heavy and I am wondering how practical it would be for off the shoulder shooting and doco shooting.......
.....This has led me to the red 18-85 zoom but it's massive. I'd appreciate any feedback - what are other peoples choices regarding an all round zoom to work with a 35 camera in a eng/efp setting ?
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This is a very nice piece of glass but it is a beast.
We are all facing the same problem with lensing as we migrate over to Super 35 from 2/3" (which is having s revival).
My suggestion is to consider high quality still lenses via a Metabones Speed Booster. The speed booster allows for proper FOV, adds a stop instead of taking two, and it has a manual iris ring that allows on the fly exposure compensation. Many of these lenses are parafocal as well.
Now if I were you however, I would also consider using the center punch function. You are still getting a 2k picture but you can use 2/3" zoom glass. Only caveat is you need to adapt that bad boy and that adaptor comes in at around $3k.
No free lunch but still cheaper than getting glass not suitable for off the shoulder use.
 
Please note that not only does the RED 18-85 require support, it in fact required STUDIO support. That means no lightweight 15mm rods 60mm apart. Instead it requires 15mm Studio or 19mm studio rods on a sliding bridge plate with a dovetail baseplate system. Supremely NOT handholdable and not a quick setup at all.
 
I have the RED 18-50, the RED 18-85 and the Sony 18-252 lenses.
The 18-85 cannot be used handheld unless you are part cyborg. Way too front heavy.
The Sony is just ok on the shoulder but a bit slow.
The 18-50 is a great handheld lens. Focus down to 8" and f2.8
I shoot in 4K and can then punch in, using Davinci Resolve.
Or you could use the 2K centre crop.
Either way gives you and effective 18 to 100mm without changing lenses.
A used 18-50 can be had for around $3000 USDF5_rhs.jpg
 
Just had a play with the TLS 24-70 at Cinegear today.
Very well made lens, looking forward to seeing it in the wild.
 
I have a fantastic RED 50-150mm PL mount lens for sale in the marketing place if interested - amazing lens with the F5/55. Thanks.
 
Is the TLS 24-70 the rehoused Nikon 24-70? They floated a price of well over 10 grand for the lens at NAB 2015. Well over. The Nikon 28-70 is parfocal and rectilnlear but the 24-70 gets all barel distorted between 28 to 24. If it's a rental fine but as a purchase, I would look at the ARRI Alura 18-80 or something else.
 
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