is the hvx broadcast quality?
- Thread starter brianluce
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
It is a near meaningless, totally subjective label that's put on video equipment.
Basically, if a network wants to broadcast your footage, it's broadcast quality. Look at the footage that came back from the reporters in Iraq on videophones! Even a Pixelvision produces better video quality than that!
Now, with that said, each network sets standards that it expects the footage to meet. DiscoveryHD, for example, says "no HDV". Other stations have said "no DV."
The HVX is marketed and sold through Panasonic's Broadcast division, so there could be a certain level of assuming that it would, indeed, be "broadcast quality" -- but as far as the actual definition of the term goes, that's really up to each network to decide.
Basically, if a network wants to broadcast your footage, it's broadcast quality. Look at the footage that came back from the reporters in Iraq on videophones! Even a Pixelvision produces better video quality than that!
Now, with that said, each network sets standards that it expects the footage to meet. DiscoveryHD, for example, says "no HDV". Other stations have said "no DV."
The HVX is marketed and sold through Panasonic's Broadcast division, so there could be a certain level of assuming that it would, indeed, be "broadcast quality" -- but as far as the actual definition of the term goes, that's really up to each network to decide.
MovieSwede
Well-known member
the E stands for Europe. The AG stands for its broadcasting division.
True. I've yet to hear a precise way of categorising gear, but in the absence of anything else, the best I've heard is "consumer", "prosumer" and "professional".Barry_Green said:
"Professional" is defined as much by connectivity and versatility as much as by sheer picture quality, and a modern prosumer camera may be higher quality than a ten year old professional camera.
With those definitions the HVX would be classed as "prosumer" along with the HD100 and Z1. In practice all three categories (certainly the top two) are widely used by broadcasters, though a lot must depend on subject - if it's such as the recent bombings, mobile phone video is good enough, if it's a top drama, it won't be.
By and large don't get too hung up on recording format at the expense of other issues. DVCAM is widely used in broadcasting here, both from such as DSR500s and such as PD150s. But it's widely realised that the difference between the two is large - greater than between a DSR500 and Digibeta, say.
Coming from BetaSP to Digital Beta and now a DVX user for over 3 years I would say anything could be considered "broadcast quality". Look at Extreme home makeover, it looks like Ty shoots himself using a little DV camera. This technique is used as a perception bridge to Suzy Soccer mom.
I have only used the DVX over the last three years to shoot dozens of regional commercials. It's quality is at least better than most spots I see shot on video. So I would have to venture a guess and say the HVX should be able to hold it's own in the "broadcast" world.
I have only used the DVX over the last three years to shoot dozens of regional commercials. It's quality is at least better than most spots I see shot on video. So I would have to venture a guess and say the HVX should be able to hold it's own in the "broadcast" world.
Gibby
Red Savant
brianluce said:
Does Panasonic themselves consider the HVX as a “broadcast quality” camera? To answer that, you only have to read the new HVX full-page ad in DV Magazine, December issue, Page 8. If you haven’t seen it, it shows an HVX from above sitting next to a page of “Help Wanted” ads in a media trade periodical. If you read the ads that are circled in yellow by the freelance owner of the HVX, the following professional uses of the HVX are suggest by Panasonic in their own new ad for the HVX:
Indie films in 24p, movie of the week in 24p, HD sports “for a major cable channel” in 60p, second camera to a Varicam in a sports production, HD wildlife documentary in 720p24, short film HDCAM second camera at 1080p24, news photography for a cable news channel in DVCPro50, HD b-roll for a stock footage house in 1080p24 and 720p24, SD reality adventure in 60i and 24p, music videos in 720p24, news stringer (DVCPro & DV), videography on DV, HD television special at 1080i at 30 fps on DVCProHD, new television reality show in 720p24/30, and finally HD commercial production in 24/20 fps.
Panasonic’s own suggested uses for the HVX, as defined in their newest magazine ad, clearly state that Panasonic themselves define the HVX as a “broadcast quality” camera for HD and SD television production. Does that answer your question?
Hope this helps…
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
Well..... they do have a certain vested interest, and I for one don't take everything said in manufacturers ads totally at face value, whatever they're for.Gibby said:
That said, I'm sure material shot in the future on HVXs will indeed turn up on broadcast TV, just as Z1s are currently being extensively used for some types of work at the moment.
Gibby
Red Savant
As a producer, director, editor, and/or cameraman I’ve contributed to over 700 standard definition television programs that aired nationally in the United States on NBC, ESPN, ESPN2, FOX Sports Net, UPN, A&E, OLN, TLC, Animal Planet, America One, Comcast Sports, Speed Channel, Fuel TV, Dish Network, and Prime Sports Network. Program genres included sports, travel, reality, documentaries, music, lifestyle, and cultures. About 300 of those programs have been produced since 1995. Prior to 1995 we used Beta SP, and before that (early ‘80’s) we had to use ¾”. In 1995, with the introduction of the VX1000, we immediately started using 3-chip DV cameras for portions of our programs – b-roll, aerial shots, water housings, etc. We found we were able to intercut the DV footage very well with Beta SP. We also started using large amounts of DVCPro and DVCAM footage. Depending on the subject matter and genre, we have produced scores of national TV programs entirely with supposedly “prosumer” 3-chip DV cameras – DVX100/100A, XL1/1S/2, VX2000/2001, and PD150/170. To enable professional results, our camera packages were equipped with every accessory available.
I think its important not to confuse “broadcast quality” with “broadcast legal”. In the USA there are certain NTSC requirements the FCC requires broadcasters to conform their broadcast material to – IRE levels, chroma levels, 720x486 resolution, etc. Conforming a program to those requirements keeps a program “broadcast legal”. For series packages, every network has a Producer’s Guidelines packet that producer’s of airing programs must use to conform their programs so the at the program can pass the network’s quality control checks. The Producer’s Guidelines specify the tech specs to ensure the program is broadcast legal, specify an airing master format (DigiBeta, Beta SP, etc.), and sometimes specify the formats and specific cameras within a format that can be used to acquire the original footage. In the genres I produce in, networks rarely, if ever, specify that DV, DVCpro, or DVCAM cannot be used, or the model of camera within those formats that can be used. They’re much more interested in a well-shot and well-edited program, airing mastered to DigiBeta or Beta SP, than what format/camera you used to acquire the images.
HDTV? The two ATSC resolutions generally broadcast in the USA are 720p and 1080i. Some networks have restricted the use of HDV to small sequences in an HDCAM-mastered program. The equipment evolution learning curve is slow for network programming executives – and they have to consider legacy equipment investments and influence from equipment manufacturers to restrict the use of “low end” acquisition equipment and “prosumer” formats. The HDV use restrictions are based on the much-publicized shortcomings of early HDV cameras. That’s starting to change. Well-shot Z1 footage has already began creeping into some HDTV broadcasts. Professionally shot HD100 and H1 footage will undoubtedly began to appear on HDTV broadcasts. The increasing demand for, and competition for HDTV programming will eliminate many of the current restrictions on the use of HDV – and subsequently the use of the HVX with it’s superior DVCProHD format.
How does the HVX200 fit in? Extremely well! If the HVX performs up to its specs, its footage will easily meet the ATSC requirements for HDTV broadcast in the USA. It will take a few months of use for the HDTV-broadcasting networks to understand that HVX footage is not HDV, and that the robust DVCProHD format used by the HVX lends itself quite well to HDTV broadcast when it is up converted to HDCAM for an airing master.
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
I think its important not to confuse “broadcast quality” with “broadcast legal”. In the USA there are certain NTSC requirements the FCC requires broadcasters to conform their broadcast material to – IRE levels, chroma levels, 720x486 resolution, etc. Conforming a program to those requirements keeps a program “broadcast legal”. For series packages, every network has a Producer’s Guidelines packet that producer’s of airing programs must use to conform their programs so the at the program can pass the network’s quality control checks. The Producer’s Guidelines specify the tech specs to ensure the program is broadcast legal, specify an airing master format (DigiBeta, Beta SP, etc.), and sometimes specify the formats and specific cameras within a format that can be used to acquire the original footage. In the genres I produce in, networks rarely, if ever, specify that DV, DVCpro, or DVCAM cannot be used, or the model of camera within those formats that can be used. They’re much more interested in a well-shot and well-edited program, airing mastered to DigiBeta or Beta SP, than what format/camera you used to acquire the images.
HDTV? The two ATSC resolutions generally broadcast in the USA are 720p and 1080i. Some networks have restricted the use of HDV to small sequences in an HDCAM-mastered program. The equipment evolution learning curve is slow for network programming executives – and they have to consider legacy equipment investments and influence from equipment manufacturers to restrict the use of “low end” acquisition equipment and “prosumer” formats. The HDV use restrictions are based on the much-publicized shortcomings of early HDV cameras. That’s starting to change. Well-shot Z1 footage has already began creeping into some HDTV broadcasts. Professionally shot HD100 and H1 footage will undoubtedly began to appear on HDTV broadcasts. The increasing demand for, and competition for HDTV programming will eliminate many of the current restrictions on the use of HDV – and subsequently the use of the HVX with it’s superior DVCProHD format.
How does the HVX200 fit in? Extremely well! If the HVX performs up to its specs, its footage will easily meet the ATSC requirements for HDTV broadcast in the USA. It will take a few months of use for the HDTV-broadcasting networks to understand that HVX footage is not HDV, and that the robust DVCProHD format used by the HVX lends itself quite well to HDTV broadcast when it is up converted to HDCAM for an airing master.
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
Neopics
Well-known member
Barry_Green said:
Indeed, and sometimes their standard is simply determined by the physical format.
I regularly create commercials/PSAs for our local Global affiliate (BCTV) using a Canon GL1. They won't accept MiniDV, but they will accept a BetaSP dub of the MiniDV footage.
Now, obviously, if my footage looked like garbage they would refuse it. But as long as the quality is decent, (and NTSC "legal"), the physical format tends to be their biggest concern because it has to fit within their established work flow. This may be the case with DiscoveryHD as well (though I haven't read their whole document yet, so I may be wrong).
Gibby
Red Savant
Neopics said:
For in-depth info about HVX potential for Discovery Networks, currently 44 posts and 2,204 page views, check out the recent thread on that topic...
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=38366Gibby said:
Gibby and others, thanks a ton for that explanation.
so,
-plenty of DV material has been broadcasted on TV
-lighting, editing, etc. = key components to make it look "broadcast quality"
Only thing I want to clarify,,,
Say the same two commercials air on Fox News. One shot with DVX, other shot with HVX. How much more professional looking will the HVX commercial look, if at all?
thanks a ton,
other little questions if you have time...
if I can use my DVX, I want to shoot progressive, but do I have to worry about the Cable stations wanting 29.97 footage so it'll play correctly in their system? Can I shoot 29p and not worry about problems on their end?
I've got a DVX and have shot tons of everything, but never a commercial that will play on TV. Please, any do's or don't would help a ton.
so,
-plenty of DV material has been broadcasted on TV
-lighting, editing, etc. = key components to make it look "broadcast quality"
Only thing I want to clarify,,,
Say the same two commercials air on Fox News. One shot with DVX, other shot with HVX. How much more professional looking will the HVX commercial look, if at all?
thanks a ton,
other little questions if you have time...
if I can use my DVX, I want to shoot progressive, but do I have to worry about the Cable stations wanting 29.97 footage so it'll play correctly in their system? Can I shoot 29p and not worry about problems on their end?
I've got a DVX and have shot tons of everything, but never a commercial that will play on TV. Please, any do's or don't would help a ton.
DavidBeier
Veteran
Like others have said it depends on the network and sometimes networks make some pretty odd choices.
For instance, the Discovery channel has said not to HDV cameras and apparently no to the HVX200's DVCPro HD. I have a friend though who was working on a Discovery channel documentary where they were shooting on Beta SP and DigiBeta and even using a bit of B-roll from his DVX100A. Odd huh?
Most others shouldn't have a problem with the HVX200. Jarred mentioned a while back that the History channel was now using HVX200s as B cameras on shoots with the Varicam as the A camera.
A lot of reality shows these days are actually still being shot with plain old DVX100s so of course the HVX200 would be acceptible. I believe breaking Bonnaduchi for instance is shot purely on DVX100s and the director frequents these forums (arrested Development is, or at least used to be shot with DVX100s as well).
The bottom line is that if it looks good you should be fine. Burn your MXFs onto DVDs and turn it in that way. Most newstations use Avid so they can just import them in with no trouble.
For instance, the Discovery channel has said not to HDV cameras and apparently no to the HVX200's DVCPro HD. I have a friend though who was working on a Discovery channel documentary where they were shooting on Beta SP and DigiBeta and even using a bit of B-roll from his DVX100A. Odd huh?
Most others shouldn't have a problem with the HVX200. Jarred mentioned a while back that the History channel was now using HVX200s as B cameras on shoots with the Varicam as the A camera.
A lot of reality shows these days are actually still being shot with plain old DVX100s so of course the HVX200 would be acceptible. I believe breaking Bonnaduchi for instance is shot purely on DVX100s and the director frequents these forums (arrested Development is, or at least used to be shot with DVX100s as well).
The bottom line is that if it looks good you should be fine. Burn your MXFs onto DVDs and turn it in that way. Most newstations use Avid so they can just import them in with no trouble.
Cell Phone Picture from Iran and Funniest home video VHS dub second generation quality is this what people call a braodcast quality. I THink If broadcaster in the name of news can transmit the 192K MP2 streme the HVX DVCPRO100MB in HD can not have any competion,
The Way I look at it is the big braodcast producers who are charging Arm and Leg and a D--K for the footage can not charge it because they shot it on $6000 camera. It is more of a survival issues for them then the quality of the footage.
I hate when all this OLD FART at network sit there and decide the broadcast quality. Its an IPOD video world. get over with your old Broadcst quality.
I bet they love to use HVX200 and lies about how they shot it. Just like they use to lie about shooting on DV and delivering on Betacam SP.
The world is changing from CRT to LCDS, from $60000 camera to $6000 camera and $150000 edit system to Apple $1500 get over with your million dollar shooting bill. You can edit on a laptop on the set and finish before the pack up of the set complete. The OLD FART just cant move fast like P2 card and they are trying to hold on to Broadcast quality.
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF HVX200P It is the next generation of creativity you cant stop it.
SO ***** ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE.
The Way I look at it is the big braodcast producers who are charging Arm and Leg and a D--K for the footage can not charge it because they shot it on $6000 camera. It is more of a survival issues for them then the quality of the footage.
I hate when all this OLD FART at network sit there and decide the broadcast quality. Its an IPOD video world. get over with your old Broadcst quality.
I bet they love to use HVX200 and lies about how they shot it. Just like they use to lie about shooting on DV and delivering on Betacam SP.
The world is changing from CRT to LCDS, from $60000 camera to $6000 camera and $150000 edit system to Apple $1500 get over with your million dollar shooting bill. You can edit on a laptop on the set and finish before the pack up of the set complete. The OLD FART just cant move fast like P2 card and they are trying to hold on to Broadcast quality.
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF HVX200P It is the next generation of creativity you cant stop it.
SO ***** ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE.
getken
Well-known member
On May 29 a new kids show will premier on PBS national called "Fetch". It replaces the old show "Zoom", which was produced mainly in the studio. I worked on Fetch last summer recording both field segments and all the studio camera. We used Panasonic SDX 900 DVCPro 50 cameras in 24P for all the studio segments. All the field pieces were recorded with the 100A in 24P. 99% of the show is done handheld...including the studio segments. We're starting production for the next season in a few weeks and will again be recording all the field segments with the 100A, except for me as I just bought an HVX 200 w/a Century 0.75x Wide Angle adapter, and plan to be using that camera. I guess PBS feels it's broadcast quality enough! Please check out the premier...May 29, let me know if you like it.
Thanks getken, i will keep an eye on it 
I think we can all agree the HVX is definately broadcast quality. Specially with DVCpro 50 in there.
I think we can all agree the HVX is definately broadcast quality. Specially with DVCpro 50 in there.