Is the gh2 the new low light high ISO DSLR king

Ian-T said:
Exactly.

By the way Roei z what's going on with your feature?
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no, don't make me face reality :( (and derailing the thread)
i was stupid enough to go to production without confirming i had a good enough story.
i faced a total gun down when showing the offline to a few producers and friends.
i should have done it while i wrote the script.
don't know what came over me. simply childish.
now i'm recovering from trauma more or less.
cannot even think about it. the time and money wasted.
i quite confident that i'm a decent director, but writing turns very problematic for me.
the material could be edited to a 30 min. film with some more shooting i guess.
but it's too heavy for me at the moment. just cannot face it.
damn i wish i'll find a writer i could work collaborate in future. not so easy to find here.
thanks for asking ;)
but seriously, i'm interested to know what you'll think of my situation.
 
roelz, you should start a thread concerning your experience in a relevant sub-forum (screenwriting perhaps?). You raise a lot of good discussion points, but I'd hate to see this thread derailed.
 
Gary Huff said:
I re-read my post and I think I wasn't quite clear in declaring that I'm quite interested in what you're talking about, and would be interested in reading a thread about it.
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thanks. yea i did get you.
it's just i'm not sure where i would like to discuss it..
scriptwriting is one side of it,
and if Ian didn't ask i guess i feel too down about it to know what i would like to discuss :)
you can PM me in order not to disturb here.
 
Coming to an end with my test run, which included shooting an actual short with a friend on the hack.

My conclusion is this:

Some people are a lot more lenient than myself as far as noise goes. To me, the camera presents a rather large amount of noise along with a ton of detail. I would not use it over 1000 ISO in any situation where image presentation is very very important, or it isn't a specific look. I also am not sure about the lowlight DSLR king. I think it would be a tie, still, between the 5D and GH2 specifically because of the amounts of noise.

You can definitely use Neat Video to get rid of noise, I haven't gotten another license for it.

I still love the GH2 Hack image, to me it isn't a no-light cam. On the short, We had a fairly easy time exposing the sensor properly at 400 ISO with a fire burning in a fireplace, some very little (maybe a stop total at max) light ambient coming in through various windows, 2 x lite panels, 2 x 150w HIMI's, and 1 x 500w Tungsten China Ball setup. Shooting at a T2.8 on Zeiss Standard Speeds, and able to shoot a lot of the short out on the 28 and 40mm lenses, which was a nice tell for me personally as to how to work with the cam.

I'd say that's pretty incredible for 700.00 a body. There was still noise, but not enough to bother me, and when dropping the card into the PS3 and playing it back on my larger Samsung panel it wasn't distracting. Less on a larger DLP.


The 5D isn't a slouch when it comes to super lowlight shooting (video). It's not noise-free, but it is clean for what it is. I bet I could find a combo use for the GH2 and 5D together on a feature.
 
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Yeah, I've used it on one day of actual production and I have to agree that it is not a low-light "king." It's very good for $700, however.

I am no expert on the GH2's profiles and settings, but I've been using the Smooth setting and reductions to contrast and noise, and whatever signal processing that's happening is very very good. Where it falls aparts is the shadows - noise reduction doesn't seem to work as well in areas below between 10-30 IRE or so (I haven't ingested my footage into FCP so I can't confirm that just yet). However, I was able to use ISO 2500 inside a well-lit gym and stop down to f/7.1 with the kit lens and the footage is very usable - no annoying or visible grain. The next time I am in a similar lighting situation I'm going to try to go up to ISO 5000 and stop down to f/11 and see if the video is usable.
 
Pepster said:
I haven't seen any evidence to support this claim. The low light areas still look muddy to me, but not nearly as bad as the GH1.

In this clip: The Personal View 'Driftwood INTRA' Showreel 1 (ungraded version) - Panasonic GH2 http://vimeo.com/32563119

this hacked GH2 certainly looks worse than my 60D in low light, and the 5D2 is even better that the 60D.
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Did you download the very large original? Vimeo's codec cannot deal with most of those shots (like the blowing Aspen leaves I shot) and just falls apart. Look at the original. That shot would destroy the codec on the 5d, EX1, and most other cameras . The GH2 grabs each frame like a still. I agree with Kholi BTW in that the GH2 is great up to around 800ISO. Remember, for those of us geezers who've been around for a while, 800ISO still feels luxurious!
 
The DSLR low light king is the NEX5N. It is absolutely amazing in low light. Definitely cleaner than the 5D (which I also own) and cleaner than an unhacked GH2 (which I previously owned). I have not used a hacked GH2 yet, but judging from other's footage, the NEX5N seems cleaner.
 
Pushing any digital camera into high ISO's is inevitably a losing game. A GH2 starts out with about 11 stops of dynamic range at its lowest ISO, which is decent but cannot compete with the 14 stops of the current DR champion (hint - it's not a Canon). Way up at ISO 12800, the GH2's DR is hobbled to a pallid 5 stops. It doesn't matter how high you crank the bitrate when your dynamic range is too cramped to capture much detail in the highlights and shadows. The GH2 is neither better nor worse than most DSLR's in this regard - the reduction in DR as ISO is increased is an inherent property of the camera's digital image sensor:

http://www.sensorgen.info/PanasonicDMC_GH2.html

The Sensorgen data on the GH2 also shows that shadow noise decreases by 50% as you raise ISO to 12800. At about ISO 800 there's a decent sweet spot where noise is reduced by 25% while dynamic range is still 9 stops. This is close to the GH2's optimal ISO for preserving dynamic range under low-light conditions.

To answer the OP's question, the current low-light cropped-sensor DSLR king is the Nikon D7000. At minimum ISO it has 14 stops of dynamic range and only half as much shadow noise as the GH2. While its shadow noise remains fairly constant across its ISO range, the D7000 retains well over 6 stops of DR at ISO 12800. These attributes allow the D7000 to capture a broader range of image details than the GH2 at higher ISO's.

http://www.sensorgen.info/NikonD7000.html
 
And again, why would you anyway. When I want a "dark" look I don't shoot in the freakin' dark. You get the distance you want between the key and the shadows then when you grade it in post the shadows will noiselessly be crushed down by the contrast adjustment.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
And again, why would you anyway. When I want a "dark" look I don't shoot in the freakin' dark. You get the distance you want between the key and the shadows then when you grade it in post the shadows will noiselessly be crushed down by the contrast adjustment.
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Documentary or wedding shooters and can't really bring in a grip truck and a bunch of HMI's to light events, even if they have the gear on hand.

I used the GH2 today to shoot inside a well-lit roller derby rink. I could've shot at ISO 160 f/2.8 but pulling focus on the girls was pretty hard, so I went to ISO 2500 f/11.
 
hendosan said:
I used the GH2 today to shoot inside a well-lit roller derby rink. I could've shot at ISO 160 f/2.8 but pulling focus on the girls was pretty hard, so I went to ISO 2500 f/11.
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Wouldn't it be better to use a videocamera with a 1/3" sensor at f1.8 then?
 
Love docs. love them, have no desire to shoot them whatsoever. I'll only do event shoots of any kind for a lot of money or because they are a REALLY good friend.

Certainly appreciate the skill you guys have, just not my cup of tea, at all, so I don't even think of those situations. I would have shot 1250 (the max I go on the 5d) and been in the mid range of 4 to 5.6 where DOF is moderate.
 
maarek said:
Wouldn't it be better to use a videocamera with a 1/3" sensor at f1.8 then?
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The GH2 is significantly cheaper than something like an HMC150 ($1199 with the 14-140 kit lens), and much more portable too. I'm not disagreeing with you, I have 2 DSLR bodies and 2 video cameras and they both get used a lot, but sometimes you have to move around quickly and having a smaller form factor is a huge advantage, especially for something like a GH2 which weighs nothing compared to even a 5D.

gonzo_entertainment said:
Love docs. love them, have no desire to shoot them whatsoever. I'll only do event shoots of any kind for a lot of money or because they are a REALLY good friend.

Certainly appreciate the skill you guys have, just not my cup of tea, at all, so I don't even think of those situations. I would have shot 1250 (the max I go on the 5d) and been in the mid range of 4 to 5.6 where DOF is moderate.
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I am terrible at pulling focus and have problems following action at 135mm unless I'm stopped down a lot :undecided
 
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