Is the EVA1 popular or not?

[deltoidjohn]

I'm surprised that nobody has really nailed down a next-gen FS7 yet (or F5/55). As others have said, the competitors (EVA1 & C200) barely match the FS7 specs wise, and don't offer anything special in terms of handling. Smaller and lighter perhaps, but, again as has been stated, those advantages disappear once you add the peripherals needed to make it equal to a FS7.

I think Kinifinity have come closest to what the market really wants, at least on paper - something that offers IQ & formats to (almost) match Red, but the convenience of "video" features - as well as a more flexible modular design (Red's awfully tall design makes it difficult to make a decent shoulder setup, or to use 15mm LW rods with the proper 85mm vertical spacing. So their "modular" design actually rules out a lot of options).

It seems the big camera companies are stuck between worlds right now - they've accepted that users are going add their own extras, monitors, rigs, etc (C200B, and EVA1's horrible LCD are perfect examples where they taken an attitude of "they won't use this anyway"), but haven't fully committed to the things that make that easier - minimalist design, V-lock power (for D-tap/accessories), lots of I/O options etc. They're trying to build modular camcorders, without accepting that to be truly modular you need to ditch the camcorder idea and just have a brain (pun intended).

 

[filmguy123]

deltoidjohn makes a good point... I think it would be interesting if Panasonic sold the EVA1 like Apple sells iPads or Macbooks:

For example:

Base EVA1 Model: $6500
EVF: $0 None / $500 Basic / $1500 Advanced
Upgrade CPU to 4k60p 10-bit Internal: $1000
2nd SDI Port: $500
Upgrade VND: $500 (+2 stops) $1500 (electronic VND)

Etc.

 

[NorBro]

If we're talking cameras, that's really the ARRI, RED, and Kinefinity* way. (*Not as much with their new systems, but was with licenses and hardware 4-5 years ago.)

Pay more to upgrade software/hardware and/or purchase accessories for a better camera.

---

I really think everyone should do this with at least 1-2 cinema cameras in that middle range.

Maybe you like the FS5, but want to purchase the FS7's codecs. Done.

Maybe you like the C200, but want the C300's 10-bit. Done.

ETC.

---

A no-brainer in today's world (I know I say that a lot but it's true) because people are simply not spending the kind of money they used to, but some just want to upgrade for better features in maybe a different model.

 

[IronFilm]

The cameras problem is that is an FS7 three years late to market. Or an overpriced GH5. Depending what hat you are wearing.

As it happens neither of those things make it a bad camera (I think it is probably excellent) probably just not one that will be popular.

This.

The Panasonic EVA1 is fighting against the stranglehold dominance the FS7 has on the market. The C300mk2 has the same problem!

But the EVA1 has a few benefits over the FS7: doesn't need an XDCA back for raw, is much lighter (more like FS5 size, but much much better), better colors, has timecode on the body itself.

My personal beleif is that MFT mount (and mode) would have made it considerably more appealing as canon mount excludes GH4 upgraders who are invested in MFT glass.

Stragtegically it is poorly conceived by panasonic. Is its only metier as a small Bcam to the Vari (a great thing for the four people who own varicams)

This.

Panasonic has years of history of building up a keen fanbase with their GH series, many of whom who are looking around for an option to upgrade to, the EVA1 EF was a kick in the teeth to Panasonic GH fans in not offering it in a MFT mount.

EVA1's biggest competition the FS7 is a mirrorless mount, and Panasonic should have done the same with its own mirrorless mount MFT

 

[morgan_moore]

But the EVA1 has a few benefits over the FS7: doesn't need an XDCA back for raw, is much lighter (more like FS5 size, but much much better), better colors, has timecode on the body itself.



We know the benefits but. Tcode? Ive never been asked for it, apart from a big multicam TV show I did (FS7 x 3) - my biggest editor/director shoots a DSLR for his personal work and is entirely happy synching audio in software.

Raw - the kind of people who want raw - well me at least - also would not shoot through a cable to a recorder - its not safe enough - I only want raw to protect my self from mis-exposure - why add a bit of operator safety at the cost of data integrety risk.

Also raw - does it work? 240fps, or are there a bunch of gotchas.. where is the promo video showing me this some raw wonderment?

I tell you I pretty much dislike my FS7.. its too heavy for solo opping and too thin codec for 'serious' shooting, and the EVF is crap.. hell it doesnt even bolt to my sticks well.

But all the other cameras are worse..
Arri - too heavy
All DSLR - wrong shape no ND
Red - too rediculous
EVA - maybe 10% better than FS7 but too costly to flip - lens mount error
Blackmagic.. great I think but doesnt cure the mass problem.

The FS7 is the least terrible camera. Its not a good camera.

FS7 - handle doesnt work, VF doesnt work, cache record doesnt work, 2 chans of audio I cant access, no HD punch in, no TC, degraded SDi when HDMI is running, doesnt bolt down properly, no RGB wfm, the list is long.

 

[morgan_moore]

No cameras are elegant tools right now (maybe 2/3 eng)

Id buy an elegant camera (one were everything works and is operator centric)

Also no cameras noticed the internet/wifi/3-4-5g. Tcode? My iphone doesnt need timecode - it just knows the time!

Aslo to TC even really just 'pop' into line in an NLE? not to my knowledge.

 

[Run&Gun]

Sounds like you need an F55(or maybe F5), Sam. Yeah, you'll still be in the same ballpark size and weight wise to your Fs7, but at least you'll get so much more camera and better image. RAW recorder bolts straight on to the body and is then integrated, plus you can still record internally simultaneously(R5's are showing up on eBay ridiculously cheap, now). Multiple real native VF options. 2x/s16 HD/2K Center Punch. TC, 4x SDI outs plus an HDMI(why?). CODECS galore(but XAVC from the 55 is great). Etc, etc.

 

[Run&Gun]

No cameras are elegant tools right now (maybe 2/3 eng)

Id buy an elegant camera (one were everything works and is operator centric)

Also no cameras noticed the internet/wifi/3-4-5g. Tcode? My iphone doesnt need timecode - it just knows the time!

Aslo to TC even really just 'pop' into line in an NLE? not to my knowledge.

That's why I still LOVE my VariCam.

 

[morgan_moore]

Yep - the 5/55 are kinda cool - I kept my FZ adapter when I flogged my F3. I do watch the used market.

I alsmost respect them as cameras (HF jack, XLR angle I do not respect)

The raw implementation is the best physically. (apart from the venice)

 

[morgan_moore]

HDMI why?

SDI is not bendy enough and doesnt work with my Animon transmitter, since floppy HDMI leads hdmi has dropped off my most hated list.

 

[Run&Gun]

Yep - the 5/55 are kinda cool - I kept my FZ adapter when I flogged my F3. I do watch the used market.

I alsmost respect them as cameras (HF jack, XLR angle I do not respect)

The raw implementation is the best physically. (apart from the venice)

Not sure what they're going for now, used, but I picked mine up in '15 for $20k, so pretty sure it's gotta be even less, now.

Yeah, ther are some really dumb things about it, like the XLR connectors and the VF connector.

It's not perfect and it's definetly not like shooting with my VariCam, but the longer I have it, the more I like it.

 

[Run&Gun]

HDMI why?

SDI is not bendy enough and doesnt work with my Animon transmitter, since floppy HDMI leads hdmi has dropped off my most hated list.

And now we will have to part ways, again. ; ) I still feel that HDMI has absolutely no place in professional production in the field. Maybe it's from all of the live TV I have done and still do, but a non-locking video connector(or audio for that matter) is like jumping out of an airplane and deciding to just hold onto the parachute with one hand instead of actually strapping it onto your body.

 

[IronFilm]

But the EVA1 has a few benefits over the FS7: doesn't need an XDCA back for raw, is much lighter (more like FS5 size, but much much better), better colors, has timecode on the body itself.



We know the benefits but. Tcode? Ive never been asked for it, apart from a big multicam TV show I did (FS7 x 3) - my biggest editor/director shoots a DSLR for his personal work and is entirely happy synching audio in software.

Sadly timecode is too underappreciated in low/mid budget work.

Which is a pity, as it never has been cheaper and easier to include timecode in your workflow!

 

[IronFilm]

Not sure what they're going for now, used, but I picked mine up in '15 for $20k, so pretty sure it's gotta be even less, now.

Yeah, ther are some really dumb things about it, like the XLR connectors and the VF connector.

It's not perfect and it's definetly not like shooting with my VariCam, but the longer I have it, the more I like it.

Sony PMW-F5 are going for sub $10K on eBay all day long. Or less. Easy.

Sometimes they've even going for similar to secondhand FS7 prices! I've seen $5K ish PMW-F5 sell on ebay this year. (soooo tempting! But as a soundie I just can't justify spending that much on a camera, and thus I stick with my PMW-F3/BMPCC/G6 instead)

 

[morgan_moore]

And now we will have to part ways, again. ; ) I still feel that HDMI has absolutely no place in professional production in the field. Maybe it's from all of the live TV I have done and still do, but a non-locking video connector(or audio for that matter) is like jumping out of an airplane and deciding to just hold onto the parachute with one hand instead of actually strapping it onto your body.

There is no right or wrong there is only, and I choose the phrase carefully 'appropriate use'.. when I was trailing cables I was all over SDI, now I have a wireless transmitter I find HDMI can be better for making small hops around my camera/gimbal rig. Also SDI needs to be specially constructed in a 'fail soft' manner - my DP502 had a small bump on the SDI and broke off the board - SDI and toy cameras/monitors can be a bad thing!

As I said I would not trust it for critical data transmission be that raw recording or in your case live OB use.

 

[OnSet]

Sadly timecode is too underappreciated in low/mid budget work.

Which is a pity, as it never has been cheaper and easier to include timecode in your workflow!

It's amusing to see the disparity of TimeCode comments... For anyone who works with a sound person who uses a modern mixer, TimeCode is an absolute necessity. When working in documentary situations I've found that the sound person will record more than two tracks most of the time -- unless it's a single person sit-down with only the boom and a single lav. Sometimes I'll get a wireless hop from the mixer, sometimes I'll be on a hard-wire snake, but in either case the audio recorded in the mixer can prove important. Not to mention just having camera mic when shooting on a Ronin... So for me, I no longer consider cameras without TC input (which is one of the reasons I bought a GH5s to go with the EVA1 - though I'm not wild about the TC input sync implementation on the GH5s... but that's a different thread).
Does TC make the camera 'popular' -- ? No, not particualrly... But for those who need the feature it's an absolute necessity. For me, 90% of my shoots have a sound person, so the TimeCode requirement was a no-brainer.

I also wish there were a second SDI output, since I'm also often in situations where the third output would be handy -- but for those situations a small D/A is usually an option. But again, I know I'm not in the 'popular' majority here, since a large portion of my work is done with a 'video village' of producers and clients...

A little reminder about the idea of "Popularity"... What are the two best-selling beers in America? -- Bud Light and Coors Light!

 

[Ben Scott]

Yep timecode is an absolute must.

 

[soarprod]

I'll chime in here as a launch day EVA1 owner (just over a year). It has been a fantastic camera and I use it as my primary camera for most of my projects. Corporate, commercial & documentary. I changed systems to the EVA1 from the Ursa Mini Pro mainly because of weight. I didn't want to gimbal the Ursa for my projects. After a few tests comparing the two cameras I found that the EVA1 gave me a good image with less fuss then the URSA. Gen4 color science has changed that but the Varicam look is great. I have also convinced several colleagues to jump in to the EVA1.

Initially I used the LCD with the hood but found shooting outside was compromised. I would often use an external hooded monitor and that worked great. Most of my shoots are primarily inside. About 8 months in, I purchased the zacuto adapter - this was a great upgrade. Easy to judge the image in any environment with no external battery needed. Focus peaking works great. I have had zero issues with the system (although I am not a fan of the loose feeling of the side grip). Sometimes I will gimbal with a GH5 shooting vlog and the cameras match closely (with less dynamic range). Now, I am finding the BMPCC4K to match well in log so I am starting to gimbal with that and use the EVA1 rigged out for handheld or on sticks.

I have had producers comment on the quality of the image (they are used to C300s). I shoot vlog primarily but otherwise scene 2 (basically vlog with standard LUT applied) for everything else. Images always come out great. Timecode really separates this camera from the C200. Also, 10bit to SD cards. I have had a few shoots with the shogun inferno shooting 5.7k raw and they have turned out great. If there was one thing I would improve it would be the nose out in RAW but then it wouldn't be RAW. I shoot 1 to 2 stops over and it pushes the noise down. Dual ISO is great because I shoot 800 @ 400 or 2500 @ 1600 and the noise looks great. Built in noise reduction works well for normal shooting modes.

The EVA1 has provided me with a great image, easy workflow and continues to be a workhorse despite it's size & weight. Wonderful camera.

 

[Murph100]

Woah, this thread took off !

Jim, I actually didn't even think about the viewfinder when I posted. To me its a non issue, I knew it was crap before I bought the EVA from all the reviews, so I got a BMPCC Zacuto Loupe ( $125 ), which fits on the LCD perfectly and works like a champ, weighs next to nothing and needs no power. I've never wished for a better LCD or viewfinder since, so much so I actually forgot all about it . The Squares focusing system on the LCD is actually really good, and I usually have a Small HD Focus or a Shogun mounted as well, so I've plenty of focusing options.

No mention about viewfinder & LCD screen?

But on the bigger points, people I know who own or have worked with the EVA-1 really like the images they get out of the camera (I do too), and everything else Murph mentions. Looks like some people think it's not the way to go for verite/handheld docs (and not just of the AF issues)... but boy... getting really pretty pictures without tons of technical hurdles... That's a very good thing.

 

[Clermond]

I'm surprised that nobody has really nailed down a next-gen FS7 yet (or F5/55). As others have said, the competitors (EVA1 & C200) barely match the FS7 specs wise, and don't offer anything special in terms of handling. Smaller and lighter perhaps, but, again as has been stated, those advantages disappear once you add the peripherals needed to make it equal to a FS7. .

there is almost nothing what you can rig on the FS7 to get the colors the EVA1 has straight out of the camera.
Sold my FS7 for these colors. For everything else you are free to choose accessories.