Is the CION ever going to ship?

I have a Cion here. I have been working with it for about a week (with a couple of days shot due to flu). I am still learning how to use it. I've tested in some stressful conditions. I am doing more this weekend with a few setups I particularly wanted to test. The IQ so far is really great, sharp with great color. The ProRes is a dream in post. I did some testing for holding highlights and so was pretty low in the darks but bumping the mids in post is ridiculously flexible at 444. I've shot mostly HD since I can't really monitor higher, but I'll do more there this weekend too.

The build quality is fantastic on the Cion. Building it was pretty easy. It's great hand held, although I'm still futzing with where to put the Alpahtron EVF to stay clear of the follow focus. The hirose connector is on the bottom and it's right next to the FF. It's all just getting used to it.

I have Duclos modded Zeiss ZFs and so the the MTF adapter. So far so good with that. I'll test some G lenses this weekend but it's snug for the ZFs.

I don't mean to be holding out but I'm under NDA and since I'm not sure what to share, I've just kept low. I also want to get my feedback to Jon and Aja first for the most part and lastly, I just need to spend some more time with it to speak confidently.

We always see early reports about cameras finding faults that turn out to be something a more judicious operator would have managed and I'd rather give the camera, an me as an operator, a chance to do my best.
 
Jon Thorn said:
Hi Brian,
I have already arranged for some CIONs to go out as evaluation units. One CION went out to Hugh Scully who participates on dvxuser.com fairly regularly. Perhaps he will chime in with some of his opinions here if he sees your comment in this thread.

Regarding the CION connectors being exposed: like many electronics, CION needs some level of protective covering if you want to take it into environments where it may be exposed to moisture. I would recommend a rain or dust cover for environments that are less than ideal for electronics.

Regarding your emails asking about lens adapters: perhaps your emails were sent to one of our staff members who just recently retired after 40 years in the video industry. If he didn't get back to you before he retired or your messages got lost in the shuffle, I apologize on behalf of AJA for that.

A variety of lens mounts are available from third parties like MTF and Wooden Camera. None of these have a filter holder built into them as you are suggesting. One thing to keep in mind is that any filter in a lens mount has to be far enough back in the mount to not interfere with rear element of the lens being used. Additionally, any filter in the image path may need to be compensated for in terms of the relationship between the focal flange distance and the sensor. Luckily, if someone produced a lens mount as you are suggesting, the CION features the ability to adjust the focal flange distance (referred to in short hand as "back focus" in our literature). To be clear, CION was designed to be more like a film camera than an ENG video camera; the design assumes that you may elect to use a matte box to host your choice of filters.

Regarding images from the camera, we have recently posted a technical video and a document to accompany it. I appreciate that the video isn't very exciting to watch, but it was intended as a guide to allow people to familiarize themselves with the various settings and the out-of-the-box images that the camera may be used to produce. We are in fact planning additional technical videos. Additional videos will likely focus on the best practices for exposing, grading, etc. People accustomed to the look of a traditional video camera will find the CION quite different. We will do our best to explain how to get the most out of the camera in the coming weeks. In fact, we have a hands on event in Los Angeles next week and I assume that there will be more events worldwide that will be easy for you to attend where you are located.

I hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
Click to expand...


Why do you use part of a dead animal on your camera?
 
Jon,
First let me say thanks for taking the time to respond to my post and that it was in no way meant as an ambush. Secondly I have no intention this becoming a serve and volley thread as I think most of us following this thread are on the same team, are interested in Cion and want it to succeed. With that being said let me respond to your responses.
Great to hear Hugh has a camera and is out there working with it. Kind of odd however that now that you are shipping the camera he is still bound by a non disclosure agreement. But what do I know about US law....Nothing so whatever. Look forward to reading whatever you can post Hugh.
Certainly I would expect all of the usual suspects to offer a rain coat or jacket for the Cion like the CamRade I have for my PMW300 or the many Porta Brace covers I have had for the many cameras I have owned. The point is not that it will need a cover in the rain or snow or dust, that is obvious. Al of the cameras I now own and have owned had some form of rubber cover over most of the connectors that allowed you to keep them closed when not in use. I worry about that in the Cion and suggest that it is something that will come back to haunt AJA down the road.
No need to apologize, I did get a response, but it was a non-answer, more of a "thanks for your interest" email in response to a technical question. But no big deal. I am aware as are many of the people here of the variety of third party lens mount makers and the lens options that Cion will have as a result. Thanks for your technical explanation that I take as a "yes" that a third party could build an adapter with built in ND.
As for you being "clear" about Cion being designed to me more of a film camera than and ENG video camera.... Well Jon that one got me. Cion is a digital camera, and having built in ND is not something that is exclusive to ENG video cameras. I would not consider the Arri Alexa, Amira, Sony F35, Sony F55, Sony F5, Sony FS 700, Sony F7 and I could go on ENG Video cameras and they all have built in ND. Jean Marc Valée makes films and he shoots with an Arri with built in ND. Even the Gods at Red saw fit last year to make a lens mount that included ND along with a global shutter. Mind you the mount cost as much as a nice lens.
I have a large collection of BW screw-on variable ND filters for my lenses along with a Pelican case full of Schnieder filters for my Chroziel mattebox and they have their place. But having built in ND or the option to attach it is crucial for many documentary shooters as well as reality shooters etc. I own an ENG/EFP camera and full kit and the reason I am looking at a Cion is not to replace it but to replace my aging FS100. My current options are an F7 and a Cion or sell some of my other kit and buy an Amira.
I would love to attend the event in LA next week, but will settle for reading about it from the folks down there who will attend. It is rare that we get an event like that in Montreal, perhaps Toronto. Though Sony does make an effort to hold hands on events for every product in Montreal since the city has such a long and rich history in film and very large new media community.
Thanks again and all the best.
Brian
Jon Thorn said:
Hi Brian,
I have already arranged for some CIONs to go out as evaluation units. One CION went out to Hugh Scully who participates on dvxuser.com fairly regularly. Perhaps he will chime in with some of his opinions here if he sees your comment in this thread.

Regarding the CION connectors being exposed: like many electronics, CION needs some level of protective covering if you want to take it into environments where it may be exposed to moisture. I would recommend a rain or dust cover for environments that are less than ideal for electronics.

Regarding your emails asking about lens adapters: perhaps your emails were sent to one of our staff members who just recently retired after 40 years in the video industry. If he didn't get back to you before he retired or your messages got lost in the shuffle, I apologize on behalf of AJA for that.

A variety of lens mounts are available from third parties like MTF and Wooden Camera. None of these have a filter holder built into them as you are suggesting. One thing to keep in mind is that any filter in a lens mount has to be far enough back in the mount to not interfere with rear element of the lens being used. Additionally, any filter in the image path may need to be compensated for in terms of the relationship between the focal flange distance and the sensor. Luckily, if someone produced a lens mount as you are suggesting, the CION features the ability to adjust the focal flange distance (referred to in short hand as "back focus" in our literature). To be clear, CION was designed to be more like a film camera than an ENG video camera; the design assumes that you may elect to use a matte box to host your choice of filters.

Regarding images from the camera, we have recently posted a technical video and a document to accompany it. I appreciate that the video isn't very exciting to watch, but it was intended as a guide to allow people to familiarize themselves with the various settings and the out-of-the-box images that the camera may be used to produce. We are in fact planning additional technical videos. Additional videos will likely focus on the best practices for exposing, grading, etc. People accustomed to the look of a traditional video camera will find the CION quite different. We will do our best to explain how to get the most out of the camera in the coming weeks. In fact, we have a hands on event in Los Angeles next week and I assume that there will be more events worldwide that will be easy for you to attend where you are located.

I hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
Click to expand...
 
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BrianMurphy said:
Jon,

Great to hear Hugh has a camera and is out there working with it. Kind of odd however that now that you are shipping the camera he is still bound by a non disclosure agreement. But what do I know about US law....Nothing so whatever. Look forward to reading whatever you can post Hugh.
Click to expand...

It turns out I was a little too concerned about my responsibilities under the NDA. It's about proprietary stuff - proposed changes - discussions of firmware, stuff like that. So it appears I'm free to comment on my experience with the Cion. So far so good.

I shot some uncontrolled light torture tests in sunlight to see how she holds. It's good. One thing I can say is that this camera likes the dark. So while shooting to protect hightlights, which is easy enough with the histogram and wfm, it's pretty dark in the monitor which makes pulling focus harder as you'd expect in such high contrast conditions. There's a gamma Expanded 1 that really helps there. Once you pull it into post, you can bump up the lows and mids to your heart's content.

One interesting difference with the Cion is that the clipping point changes based on various settings. It doesn't clip at IRE 100 like a Rec 709 camera, which is taking some getting used to. I'm going over shots, looking at notes, still figuring what settings I like for various setups. I'm doing some controlled daylight and then some tungsten night interiors. The camera likes daylight for color. I'm curious how the tungsten stuff looks.
 
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h-munster,
I am sorry if you find the suede shoulder pad offensive. I am a vegetarian myself so I appreciate you sharing your opinion with us. If you would prefer a synthetic material shoulder pad (made of Alcantara) I could provide you with a sample that I have. If there was interest in seeing Alcantara shoulder pads as an option for the camera I could ask the company to consider that as well.

Thank you for your feedback,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
 
Brian,
Hugh Scully was provided with a camera under NDA so that he may beta test possible new features for us. He isn't being asked to censor his opinion about the camera. His opinion is his to share.

Sorry if there was confusion about this.

Thanks,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
 
BrianMurphy said:
Hugh what lenses are you using on the camera?
Click to expand...

Duclos modded Zeiss ZFs (85, 50, 35, 25, 21). I also have a Tokina 11-16, Tokina 28-70 f2.8 and Nikon AF-S VR 70 -300. So far I've not used the 11-16 or 70-200 but I need to to see how that MTF mount does with the aperture.
 
Yep, got that from Hugh's post.

Jon Thorn said:
Brian,
Hugh Scully was provided with a camera under NDA so that he may beta test possible new features for us. He isn't being asked to censor his opinion about the camera. His opinion is his to share.

Sorry if there was confusion about this.

Thanks,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
Click to expand...
 
Jon Thorn said:
h-munster,
I am sorry if you find the suede shoulder pad offensive. I am a vegetarian myself so I appreciate you sharing your opinion with us. If you would prefer a synthetic material shoulder pad (made of Alcantara) I could provide you with a sample that I have. If there was interest in seeing Alcantara shoulder pads as an option for the camera I could ask the company to consider that as well.

Thank you for your feedback,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
Click to expand...

Why don't you make default the version that lacks dead animal parts, with the dead animal part as an option?
 
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I think the shoulder pad on there is very good. It's surprisingly firm and the suede provides a rough enough surface to grab your shoulder. Do you have any porta-brace bags? It works the same way as their shoulder strap which is great because it has just enough "grip" on it to prevent it from sliding off. Likewise for the camera, it provides just enough grip to keep it from sliding around. Hopefully any synthetic alternatives would mimic that feature.
 
hscully said:
I think the shoulder pad on there is very good. It's surprisingly firm and the suede provides a rough enough surface to grab your shoulder. Do you have any porta-brace bags? It works the same way as their shoulder strap which is great because it has just enough "grip" on it to prevent it from sliding off. Likewise for the camera, it provides just enough grip to keep it from sliding around. Hopefully any synthetic alternatives would mimic that feature.
Click to expand...

I never had a problem with shoulder mount cameras slipping off of my shoulder, nor have I ever heard of anyone else having such a problem. Even if the problem existed, suede might not be the best material.

So, I don't see why an animal has to be killed to use a camera on one's shoulder.
 
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h-munster said:
So, I don't see why an animal has to be killed to use a camera on one's shoulder.
Click to expand...

I think it's good that you raise this issue, and I'm a conservationist myself and very opposed to animal cruelty. However, in the case of leather I would think it's the case that the animal is actually being killed for the beef and the leather is a by-product. So in fact if you were not to use the leather it would be a crime as an animal has been killed and part of it has been wasted. Just my opinion.

Steve
 
What are the physical dimensions of the camera? I see the weight listed but nothing regarding length, width, height.
 
BrianMurphy said:
As for you being "clear" about Cion being designed to me more of a film camera than and ENG video camera.... Well Jon that one got me. Cion is a digital camera, and having built in ND is not something that is exclusive to ENG video cameras. I would not consider the Arri Alexa, Amira, Sony F35, Sony F55, Sony F5, Sony FS 700, Sony F7 and I could go on ENG Video cameras and they all have built in ND.
Click to expand...

Sony F35 has no ND and for same reason. It is cinema camera. But it is very high end cinema camera and idea is crew will use high quality panavision size filter in mattebox and not lower quality built in eng filter.

The camera name is FS7 not F7. Don't know why people call F7.
 
Jon Thorn said:
Hi Brian,
I have already arranged for some CIONs to go out as evaluation units. One CION went out to Hugh Scully who participates on dvxuser.com fairly regularly. Perhaps he will chime in with some of his opinions here if he sees your comment in this thread.

Regarding the CION connectors being exposed: like many electronics, CION needs some level of protective covering if you want to take it into environments where it may be exposed to moisture. I would recommend a rain or dust cover for environments that are less than ideal for electronics.

Regarding your emails asking about lens adapters: perhaps your emails were sent to one of our staff members who just recently retired after 40 years in the video industry. If he didn't get back to you before he retired or your messages got lost in the shuffle, I apologize on behalf of AJA for that.

A variety of lens mounts are available from third parties like MTF and Wooden Camera. None of these have a filter holder built into them as you are suggesting. One thing to keep in mind is that any filter in a lens mount has to be far enough back in the mount to not interfere with rear element of the lens being used. Additionally, any filter in the image path may need to be compensated for in terms of the relationship between the focal flange distance and the sensor. Luckily, if someone produced a lens mount as you are suggesting, the CION features the ability to adjust the focal flange distance (referred to in short hand as "back focus" in our literature). To be clear, CION was designed to be more like a film camera than an ENG video camera; the design assumes that you may elect to use a matte box to host your choice of filters.

Regarding images from the camera, we have recently posted a technical video and a document to accompany it. I appreciate that the video isn't very exciting to watch, but it was intended as a guide to allow people to familiarize themselves with the various settings and the out-of-the-box images that the camera may be used to produce. We are in fact planning additional technical videos. Additional videos will likely focus on the best practices for exposing, grading, etc. People accustomed to the look of a traditional video camera will find the CION quite different. We will do our best to explain how to get the most out of the camera in the coming weeks. In fact, we have a hands on event in Los Angeles next week and I assume that there will be more events worldwide that will be easy for you to attend where you are located.

I hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
Click to expand...

Cion has real Log? If not why not?

How can it be 12 stops when the sensor you use is only 10 stops? Trickery?


Why not say what is the base ISO? Specs in your site are very incomplete.
 
I stand corrected regarding the F35. It does not have built in ND. It was a fine camera in its day that can now be bought for under $10k. And I will make a serious effort to adhere to Sony naming standards and refer to the FS-7 by its true and proper name PXW-FS7. Many thanks.
 
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