Is the CION ever going to ship?

BrianMurphy said:
Is it possibles do if so do any of the 3rd party lens adapter builders have plans to make a behind the lens variable ND Canon or other lens adapter for the Cion?
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Oooo, now that IS a good question! Is that a simple task in terms of where it would need to be in relation to the sensor or any other issues? The mechanics of it should be fairly straightforward and it would be a big help for a lot of users.
Steve
 
Glad you agree Steve. My concern going forward is to have an ergonomic camera as well as built in ND. Both of these issues are not part of my current. FS100 despite a significant investment in Berkey gear it is uncomfortable albeit usable on the shoulder. When I wrote AJA they didn't answer the question. I have suggested it to FotoDiox who make the one I now use in my FS100, which works great. I suspect they are waiting to see how the camera does on the market. But nonetheless no one has said it would be possible at this point.
 
BrianMurphy said:
My concern going forward is to have an ergonomic camera as well as built in ND. ... FS100
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If you are used to FS100 you may be in for a shock! The FS100 needs a 6stop ND any time that is not night time - it is wild to control light with that night vision camera!

I own and Fs100 but shot a feature recently on the BMC4k which I think is a similar chip to the Coin.

The BMC has 200 base and for the whole shoot we basically slapped a 2stopND onboard and didnt worry about it -yep we needed 4stop in midday sun twice.

As I mainly shoot with an 18 and a 35-70 - I have 2 screw on NDs to keep it simple on lens changes.

I found with a 200 base camera the ND total stress nightmare basically faded away.

FWIW I had a Nikkor Nex adapter made with a drop in ND for the FS100 - it works but your witness marks go down the toilet.

It was quite a simple operation I milled a slot in a lens adapter and 3d printed the drop in!

S
 
There was a video from IBC, I think, where their rep said that they had the ISO to 350. It's not going to be a "see in the dark" camera. I think it's designed in that lower range with other cinema cameras. We'll see what it looks like at various ISOs but I will sometimes, especially on a daylight exterior, drop the ISO to help with the NDs. It's one way to get another stop or two.
 
Thanks for the input Sm. I like you have owned the FS100 since it came out and I have resisted buying up twice. I am quite used to its peculiar and to some annoying sensitivity. I have a collection of ND devices built up over the period I have owned the camera. From my BW screw-on nds to a full range of 4x4 glass for my mattebox. Recently I sold most of my E-mount lenses and went to Rokinon Canon EF mount along with my Nikon and Contax collection. The FotoDiox Variable ND Throttle is by far the best fix for my camera and the work I do. It is extremely well made and very good optically. Great company as well I have to say. I admire your skill to have milled and 3D printed a fix for yours, but alas many of us neither have the tools or the skills to follow your route. And for a hundred bucks, I would prefer to wait for the letter carrier and have a pint.
Since my next camera will probably be the last camera I buy before hanging up my skates as we are know to say in Montreal, I am taking my time choosing and I hope the Cion will be the ticket. Kind of reminds me of a Trenka I shot with once way back in the day ;>)
Cheers
 

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BrianMurphy said:
I admire your skill to have milled and 3D printed a fix for yours, but alas many of us neither have the tools or the skills to follow your route.
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When I said the operation was 'easy' I meant if you are MTF services or suchlike - I have suggested to them simple drop in behind the lens ND before but they resist for some reason - main reason is unless you have a clear and mildly reduce the FFD the witness marks go to twonk but that is just a queston of skimming about a mm off the FFD. As a diy it was a right pain!

I feel you on the FS100 on ND - FS100: $2000, experiments with ND solutions: $3000.

I promise with a 200ISO camera the pain fades away.

Do you want a 200ISO camera? well that is a different question, I like the Coin, it is indy sexy metal lust box, but I whimped out and got the corporate whore plastic cam (FS7 4000ISO)

S
 
If you are used to FS100 you may be in for a shock! The FS100 needs a 6stop ND any time that is not night time - it is wild to control light with that night vision camera!
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True!

before hanging up my skates as we are know to say in Montreal
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That's funny.
I am still shooting with my FS100 as well. I'm going to 'run & gun' the thing into the ground, based on its current worth.
 
Thank you Mr. Phillipps!!! It was a regal beast. A 16mm Ottawa built machine that could run mag stipe as well. Not an Eclair but saw service in many Canadian news and sports departments. Sorta made the shooter stand out from the CP16 guys and make the Eclair shooters turn up their noses. But then who shots news with an Eclair....a poser. And I hear you about things stuck in and sticking out. Back then a cheese plate was something tasty especially with a bottle of vintage Tuesday or a cold Moslon EX. Beauty eh!
Mitch buddy, you need more Wabi-Sabi in your perspective :>)
 
Guys, I too am a true lover of classic film cameras In my time I shot 16mm with Arri ST, Arri BL, Arri M, all the Arri SRs, Arri 416, Eclair NPR, Eclair CM3, Eclair ACL, Beaulieu, Bolex, CP, Auricon, Kodak, Photonics, Mitchell, some oddball Soviet cameras and one crazy-tricked out Oxberry Stand. And of course my trusty & sexy Aaton. I don't expect every camera to be as Frech chic as the lovely curves of the Aaton, but that thing looked very Soviet to my eye -- not a single compound angle on it!

I probably forgot a few cameras on that list above. And don't get me started on all the 35mm or (lord forbis) the various video cameras that have come & gone over the years.
 
speaking of old school...imagine a Sony Fs7 with a turret lens using 3 leica lenses of different focal length. How cool would THAT be?!?

A modern Sony video camera with something like this on the front-

Krasnogorsk-Zenit-B-(with-lens-turret).jpg

It would solve the dilemma of there being no zoom with a wide enough range! Hell, you could use 3 Canon EF zooms. Lol!
 
I really don’t know what to think of the Cion. But I’m for sure watching. This is basically the reason I’m holding off buying a FS7. This and because I’m not sure about the problems and the image of the FS7. But if the Cion ends up not being better I think a FS7 is a sure thing in my near future.

I’m basically waiting to see if the Cion will either not have the problematic Blackmagic 4K sensor or will at least do a better job with it than Blackmagic did. If AJA would somehow manage to get higher than ISO 400 and to get more than just 12 stops out of the sensor and also better highlight reproduction than those ugly highlights from the Blackmagic, I will definitely be interested. With that I would be willing to forgive the black sun and fixed pattern noise, if it is indeed using the same sensor as Blackmagic. Otherwise I just don’t see how it can compete with the FS7. It’s true the Cion has the advantage with the higher quality codecs and formats and based on that alone is better suited for high end work than the FS7. But if the sensor will be as problematic at the Blackmagics then it’s a moot point.

The FS7 is cheaper with cheaper media, offers 14 stops and ISO 2000, more frame rates even if 2K and comes ready to shoot .

The Cion needs an external recorder for high frame rates, has no EVF, needs more expensive media and costs more. So a shooting package will be closer to $12,000 to get what you get in the FS7 for $8,000. If it has much less dynamic range and much lower ISO, what’s the appeal over a FS7? Can’t see it and if you add other FS7 goodies like built in NDs, cheaper batteries and all the stuff it gets very hard for the Cion.

If all fails and they could at least manage to add internal raw and internal 120fps recording they could still make it appealing. But as it seems to be it looks more and more like the FS7 is the better option.

I hope we will know soon enough now and hope they don’t delay it yet again.
 
I think you're right about the overall cost. You have to figure in the EVF, batteries, media, support, other-than PL mount, etc. I agree it gets you closer to $11 - 12K. I was able to get a great deal on an Alpahtron here on dvxuser and I'll always be able to use that. A lot of stuff I have too, like a 5.6" monitor. There are places to economize there.

A lot of people are looking at that FS7. Here's the thing... I haven't seen any footage from that camera that really knocks me out. It's OK, but it just looks thin to me - skintones look grayish. It could be the workflow. I've read that thread pretty faithfully and it sounds like working with slog and applying luts or grading in post has delivered results that vary wildly. The shooters working with it are devoted, for sure. I've seen some good footage, that definitely would work for a lot of jobs, especially the run and gun type, but I have not seen any movie type images from FS7. Not yet anyway.

I need a movie camera. I'm hoping the Cion is it.
 
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hscully said:
I've seen some good footage, that definitely would work for a lot of jobs, especially the run and gun type, but I have not seen any movie type images from FS7. Not yet anyway.

I need a movie camera. I'm hoping the Cion is it.
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I don't think you will see movie footage from the FS7 as most users aren't buying it for that purpose. Commercial,Corporate,event,R&G, Doc will be the FS7 bread and butter and what most users are generating.

There is nothing about the FS7 that indicates it wouldn't produce a great image under narrative movie setups when shot CineEI+Slog3+Sgamut.cine
 
Sttratos said:
what’s the appeal over a FS7
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For me, it's global shutter. I hate rolling shutter, so much that it outweighs ISO, dynamic range, and some of the other things you mention. I wish others were like me, so that we could stage some sort of boycott and force the camera makers to move motion purity to the front of the line of feature requests.
 
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