Is the CION ever going to ship?

Jon Thorn said:
Some quick comments regarding sensors and log profiles.

We do offer two forms of raw output; one via Thunderbolt and one via SDI. Like the Sony F5/55 series cameras, our raw output is linear because this is the most "untouched" signal we can provide from the sensor.

Log profiles are most often applicable when your sensor A/D exceeds your encoding ability. For example, you have a 14-bit A/D and you want to save an 8-bit file (a common case with many of the cameras in the market today). Log acts as a form of compression allowing you to get the 14-bit "mapped" as well as possible into an 8-bit container. Now consider that the AJA CION uses a 12-bit A/D, performs 12-bit processing, and then stores this in a 12-bit container (Apple ProRes 4444). In this method, you maintain the same specificity throughout. If you encode 10-bit with the camera, you are not making a huge sacrifice because the processing has been performed at 12-bit prior to the 10-bit encode.

The proof is always in how well an image holds up when "exercised" in post. Starting with a 12-bit or 10-bit image is always a good starting point.

I hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems
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This is hugely helpful. Thanks, Jon. I need to read up a bit more on this stuff.
 
Razz16mm said:
The big advantage with raw is that you get the full linear DR and color gamut the sensor can capture unrestricted by the standards defined limits of a video codec. This will not be nearly as much of a limitation with REC2020 UHD as it is with REC709 codecs.
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While I will say that this appears to be true with AJA's implementation of RAW (at least the Dynamic Range part), it is not necessarily true of all RAW signals. All that RAW means is "not deBayered". It can have a white point baked in, it can have limitations placed on the dynamic range, color gamut, noise floor, noise suppression, and a host of other aspects. RAW is astoundingly undefined as a term.
 
Still absolutely nothing going on - no clips, no dates, no chatter, it really is very disappointing :( The FS7 thread now has 114 pages...and the camera is now actually in the hands of customers. I really don't say this very often, but.....well done Sony.
It's a shame as the Cion looked beautiful and it's so good to have high quality competition in the market - it's what has made the FS7 what it is - in fact I might go so far as to say that Cion has fulfilled its purpose before even existing - just by its rumour it has set the price of the FS7 really low and that camera is now set to be a winner.
I just find it really sad.
Steve
 
The FS7 is a really nice surprise. Who figured that Sony would come out with it. I think it's going to be very popular. For me, there's no connection. AJA is new to cameras. Sony has all this experience and scale to release a camera. It's a massive camera making machine. Totally different development cycle. As you say, good for them. I really think all FS7 and CION share is a price point, anyway.

I'm waiting. I always planned to. Once the CION is out I will give it a shot. I hope whatever they're waiting on will give them a better chance in the market. It can be pretty rough out here. No second chance at a first impression and all. I'm hoping it is dotting t's stuff and not any crucial debility. That's what they are saying and there's no real reason to doubt it. I read somewhere there was a feature Europe needed to make it good for them. Maybe that's it. Hey, think of it this way, it probably means more features.

I just keep thinking 4K, 2K UHD, HD ProRes 4444 out da box, global shutter, rich colors, 3rd party stuff welcome (which I have)... and she's a looker. I still think CION is my next movie camera.

why is it a shame? Do you need to buy a camera today?
 
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hscully said:
why is it a shame? Do you need to buy a camera today?
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The way a lot of broadcast work is these days I still probably will never need a camera ever again! It's a shame because it looked like such a beautiful camera, and well thought-out (backed on by Jon's explanation of the thinking behind it) and I just love an elegant, slightly left-field bit of kit, and also like the idea of being able to interact directly with the people who made the camera - definitely can't do that with Sony. We'll see, but I honestly think the time has come and gone.

Steve
 
I would be willing to review the camera when ready if AJA is up to it. Just your average working guy under real world conditions.

I have no affiliation with AJA, but I have purchased Kona cards, IO, and converters from them over the years.

Dave
 
I wonder if the CION will have the same problem as the F5 does with 2K showing artifacts and needing a different OLPF. I see that Dragon is shipping with different filters too. Maybe the way they get to 2K from the full 4K mitigates that. Anybody know?
 
The F5/55/FS700/FS7 all derive HD or 2K from a 4K sensor without any issues or need for a special OLPF.

The 2K OLPF option is only needed for the HFR mode where 4 adjacent pixels are grouped off the sensor and then processed.
 
Thanks Dennis, for straightening me out on that. I did not know it was only for HFR. I thought the 4K filter didn't filter some artifacts for 2K in all framerates including 24p. I appreciate that. My mistake.
 
I know... you'd have to kill us. The NSA could learn a few things about "message discipline" from AJA ;)
 
That's a great write up. Thanks for finding it and thanks for sharing it. The ability to pull that much detail out of the blacks really shows how well it will grade. Nice to see it out there on the end of that jib doing some work!
 
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