Is the 2k raw in 7Q going to be as bad as 2k in sonys raw recorder?

+1 to freshTEA

Also they've been quite upfront about the progress and also allowing for further functionality via firmware over time, based on customer feedback. I'm not aware of any other recorder manufacturer that has solicited this level of feedback.

cheers
Paul
 
Going to all the expos makes a company more reliable on delivering the product in your eyes. Has any one seen them actually recording on 7q at the expos or where they showing it in its monitor state?

I would be even more worried if they are not going to showcase a working recorder at the next expo they are going to.
But that is just me, I like my lenses German and getting the stuff i order delivered in time.
 
Sami2 said:
I am just a guy who is trying to figure out which device to get in order to be able to record raw on projects later this year. 2k raw would be enough for those projects but not the 2k that we see in the videos res charts
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So... Just WAIT till we get Sony Interface Unit and record first samples in 4K and 2K .. than wait till CD will be available and compare the result! .. What a problem with it? I was skeptical about CD from the beginning, when they asking a lot of money for they option... and now, after they test units, they drop price, but don't show as ANY of the samples they record.. so?... when we can see it? ...

..and ...why no one was never worry about shooting 4K RAW with RED cameras, but everyone worry to do the same with FS-700 ? :laugh: .. I don't know how often I will shoot 4K RAW ... but it's 100% better TO HAVE this option, than DO NOT HAVE IT!! :)
...and so many complain about "bulky" Sony unit for record RAW, as no one never see how BIG Sony F65 camera is... or never use any BIG LENSES with FS-700... :) I don't see much problem with it, as I shoot mostly on Tripod or Crane/Jib/Skater, etc...
IF you don't shoot much on shoulder RIG - why do you have to worry about the size or your setup? .. actually - bigger RIG is better- as it make all together more stable.. so what?? ...
 
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Bashing and questioning the legitimacy of an unreleased product is really pretty rude, don't you think? You can't expect to see it working until it's working, and it is completely irrelevant until it's shipping. If it's not shipping, you can't buy it, so they can't take your money, so -- it's irrelevant to you up until the point where it's a real product that's really on the market.

So how about stopping the complaints about it "not working" until it's actually working? They said they'd be shipping the first units in August. So that means less than 7 weeks from now. Surely you can hold off on besmirching their reputation at least for 7 weeks, can't you?
 
Barry_Green said:
Bashing and questioning the legitimacy of an unreleased product is really pretty rude, don't you think? You can't expect to see it working until it's working, and it is completely irrelevant until it's shipping. If it's not shipping, you can't buy it, so they can't take your money, so -- it's irrelevant to you up until the point where it's a real product that's really on the market.

So how about stopping the complaints about it "not working" until it's actually working? They said they'd be shipping the first units in August. So that means less than 7 weeks from now. Surely you can hold off on besmirching their reputation at least for 7 weeks, can't you?
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I don't know what "product" do you mean..., but seem like you are talking about Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q....as you say "August" ... :) and I don't think anyone "Bashing" it ! :)..., as quality of 2K images is coming from Sony FS-700.. no matter what recorder you gonna use it... This is why I jump in with idea of "Cropped 2.35:1 Mode" ... and now I see it can be something like this:

FS700_Sensor_cs.jpg


I took original size screen shoot from FS-700 and mark it with 2.35:1 Aspect Ratio lines first, than place marker lines of my "Cropped 2.35:1" mode ( 17.0mm X 7.23mm in average ) in center..
..and I've got the size of it in pixels 2746X1162.. in average.. so it's turn into 3.19 megapixels - "3K Video" ... seems not bad, if someone know how to calculate what kind of frame rate we can get with it - that will be cool :)
...and as I say before - there is NO reason "do not have 4K RAW option" and there NO reason to worry too much about "bulky" HXR-IFR5/AXS-R5+Battery .. ( if you don't shoot 90% of your footage with Shoulder RIG :) )

I'm sure - Odyssey 7Q is VERY GOOD recorder, but it is SONY who do NOT give to Convergent Design option to record 4K RAW ... and it is Sony FS-700 which produce 2K RAW images, people worry about ..
..and it is Sony, who do NOT give us an option to record 4K 12 bit 4:4:4 uncompressed files to AXS-R5 recorder.. instead of 4K RAW ..

So.. ? I'm "Bashing" Sony for all of it ! . .why not? :)
 
"I'm sure - Odyssey 7Q is VERY GOOD recorder," of course it is since they have gone the trouble of going to several expos and saying so :D

It is definetely the 2k out of sony that worries me and the original question was is that raw you get with 7q, i am afraid it is.

I do not have time to wait and i will get sonys whole thing as soon as it is available.

Thanks for remaining me once again what a love country full of awesome people we have on the wrong side of Atlantic ocean :)
 
Guys.. correct me if im wrong but you do upgrade your fs700 so that it can output 4k & 2k raw.

The 7Q might not have the license to use 4k raw as an output BUT it can still read 4k raw and then output it to for an example 1080p codec and CD do have the license to use 2k raw, there for they can prob take that 4k raw and output it to 2k raw (since they do have the license for that) and get a really good image out of the camera. That is to say 7Q might not take the 2k raw FROM the camera, they might use the 4k raw and output it to 2k raw instead..
Get it? They are already making it happened with the 1080p 10-bit codec, I think they can manage to get a good 2k raw out of the camera.

I agree to paulcurtis
Once again there is no prof, cause you know what.. There is no 7Q out yet. And I have yet to see a company that has gone out and communicate with consumers, like Dan and his team from CD have been doing. AND they have listened, answered & met many of our requests. There is no prof yet but I sure as h**** will cut them some slack and root for their cause.

I'm not interested in sony's solution so if you are then thats awesome.
 
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We will judge the effective quality of the Odissey 7Q only once it will distributed (we can survive one month and half more), but I would like to point the huge effort Dan Keaton and his team has done to fulfill our request: we asked for license free HD codec, and they did it, we ask for cheaper media and license, and they did it, we asked for HD 422 at 10/12 bit, and they did it...
I think I've never seen such a collaborative development, so if the delay means a better product... welcome!
 
Hey everyone, I just had the following conversation with Convergent via twitter to get clarification on the whole 2K issue. Here's what information I got.

Me: "@ConvergentD i've seen conflicting reports online - are 1080p compressed recordings on a 7Q taken from the FS700's 2K or 4K signal? thanks!"

CD: "@brazzellvideo We take a 2K sample from the 4K raw and compress it. Super-sampled 2K image as Mov file." (link)

CD: "@brazzellvideo That is up to 60fps" (link)

So it seems the compressed recordings will be processed from the 4K signal, not the degraded 2K signal we're concerned about , at least for the normal frame rates. The Super Slow-mo will still suffer, I'm sure... but we're used to that with the internal signal anyways.

Now, the real question is the quality of the 7Q's processing of the "2K sample of the 4K raw" - hopefully they can do externally what Sony could not do internally. I'm still very hopeful for the 7Q overall. Can't wait to see footage!
 
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brazzam said:
Here's what I information I got.

Me: "@ConvergentD i've seen conflicting reports online - are 1080p compressed recordings on a 7Q taken from the FS700's 2K or 4K signal? thanks!"

CD: "@brazzellvideo We take a 2K sample from the 4K raw and compress it. Super-sampled 2K image as Mov file." (link)...
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Sorry, Alan.. maybe my english is not good enough :) ... CD told you about 1080p . .but what about 2K RAW ?? can you ask them what they get from FS-7090 and HOW they process and record it?
 
I know Dan is travelling a lot at the moment which is why he's not been on these boards. The 4K -> 2K out is a happy piece of information although i thought that was planned a bit further down the line after the first version. Very happy to hear if this isn't the case - of course one of the questions would be 2K at what bit depth? 10bit or 12bit?

The CD website keeps changing. If you look at it currently the suggestion is that the normal 7Q recorder will do 1080p 12 bit 444 up to 60fps and if this is from a supersampled 4K source then that would be amazing quality HD. On the same page the only extra thing the 7Q does is 2K RAW (which in order for it to be RAW would be passed straight from the camera output, not from 4K).

I'd like to see CD get the devices on the market with v1 and then continue listening for feedback and update when they can.

Also i'm sure once they're work is bedded down we'll get a final day one list of options.

cheers
paul
 
Hey guys,

The twitter conversation I mentioned earlier led to an email exchange with one of the engineers at Convergent Design and I have a little more information for us from him. I had linked to him the presentation about the 2K image quality. Nothing too surprising here, but it's nice to get it straight from one of the guy's working on it.

"The video is correct in that the 2k RAW is subsampled from the 4k sensor. This binning can cause some aliasing artifacts depending on the subject being shot. For example, sharp diagonal lines can show a bit of stair step effect. Sony did this subsampling to keep the same field of view, ie the entire sensor is used in either 2k or 4k mode so a 35 mm lens will have the same field of view in either case. When the camera records internally at high frame rate, the same effect can be seen. At lower frame rate (60p and below), the analog to digital converter on the sensor is fast enough to sample the entire sensor and then create a super sampled 2k image. In RAW mode, this is not directly possible. This is the reason we are going to recommend that for any 2k shooting of 60p and below, to put the camera in 4k RAW mode so that we can create a supersampled 2k image in the Odyssey and record that. My current plan is to record that as compressed 444 12 bit video in Slog2. For any shooting at greater than 60p, the 2k RAW mode will need to be used. One good thing about shooting in RAW in this mode is that the de-bayering done in post processing can improve the aliasing artifacts as opposed to the high speed video recorded internally in the camera in which sophisticated de-bayering algorithms cannot be used simply due to time constraints of processing 240 fps. Sony has mentioned the use of a low pass optical filter as a way to greatly reduce the aliasing.Of course all this technical talk doesn't mean much without seeing some video. We're working on creating some RAW video to put on our website for users to start looking at."

Just wanted to share the knowledge I had. After talking with him, I'm convinced they are still fine-tuning the software to get the best image possible. In further conversations he promised sample footage will be going up "soon" and even went as far as to offer to send me a few frames, but I decided that I'd wait until they posted publicly. Seeing it now or a couple weeks from now, it doesn't really matter to me as I can't get the device for a month or so from now anyways. I'm just content to know the samples are coming.
 
brazzam said:
Hey guys,

The twitter conversation I mentioned earlier led to an email exchange with one of the engineers at Convergent Design and I have a little more information for us from him. I had linked to him the presentation about the 2K image quality. Nothing too surprising here, but it's nice to get it straight from one of the guy's working on it.
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That's some good information there too. 2K subsampled from 4K is perfect. How many other cameras can offer 1080p or 2K at an effective 444 and 12 bit?

This would be better 2K than the F5/F55 is capable of.

Any news on 4K recording formats though? I know this was a little uncertain day one.

Perhaps you could ask them how the shipping dates are looking :) are we iikely to see the recorders any time soon?

cheers
Paul
 
From what I've read, the 4K compressed recording format will be the "other popular codec." Though, we also know the Odyssey will not be able to record 4K above 30fps nor will it be able to record 4K RAW, due to Sony's stipulations in the license to CD.

As for asking more questions, I think I'm going to leave him alone and let him keep working on getting the product out the door. :) I want the thing as soon as possible.
 
brazzam said:
From what I've read, the 4K compressed recording format will be the "other popular codec." Though, we also know the Odyssey will not be able to record 4K above 30fps nor will it be able to record 4K RAW, due to Sony's stipulations in the license to CD.

As for asking more questions, I think I'm going to leave him alone and let him keep working on getting the product out the door. :) I want the thing as soon as possible.
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Good stuff Brazzam. Once the footage is up we can all decide for ourselves.
 
brazzam said:
From what I've read, the 4K compressed recording format will be the "other popular codec." Though, we also know the Odyssey will not be able to record 4K above 30fps nor will it be able to record 4K RAW, due to Sony's stipulations in the license to CD.
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The website specs have 4K down as 10bit YUV at the moment, i'd be a bit disappointed to see that it's not 12bit. I really don't mind about 25/30fps (especially if the burst mode works in that mode) and don't mind about not being RAW (So long as we get the 12 bits).

brazzam said:
As for asking more questions, I think I'm going to leave him alone and let him keep working on getting the product out the door. :) I want the thing as soon as possible.
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That's also a very good point +10 for that...

cheers
Paul
 
Yeah but im assuming the burst mode in 4k wont work with 7Q, or at least no one from CD ever mentioned from what I know... but it would have been really nice to be able to do 4k in hi frame rates in bursts
 
paulcurtis said:
The website specs have 4K down as 10bit YUV at the moment, i'd be a bit disappointed to see that it's not 12bit. I really don't mind about 25/30fps (especially if the burst mode works in that mode) and don't mind about not being RAW (So long as we get the 12 bits).
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From another thread here on the forum Dan Keaton has stated he is asking the engineers whether or not 444 12 bit is possible, and if so, there will probably be an upgrade.
 
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