Is S-LOG the only thing separating the F3 from the newly announced FS700?

Finnegan

Finnegan

Well-known member
Pardon my ignorance of Sony's camera lineup - the only camera I've used extensively from Sony is the EX-1. I've been heavily interested in the F3 for the past couple months, but now with the newly announced FS700 I'm wondering what it offers that the FS700 doesn't. Is S-LOG the only major difference?
 
Low light performance should be better with the F3, it also comes standard with a PL-mount rather than the E-mount.
 
I don't think that FS700 will be close to F3 with dynamic range neither.
These are quite different cameras at the end.
 
Yes. You only get 4:4:4 and dynamic range improvements with the s-log externally. Without it you are stuck with 4:2:0 mpeg2 at 35mbps. So yes, s-log is now basically the only real thing keeping them apart.
 
maarek said:
Yes. You only get 4:4:4 and dynamic range improvements with the s-log externally. Without it you are stuck with 4:2:0 mpeg2 at 35mbps. So yes, s-log is now basically the only real thing keeping them apart.
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I beg to differ. The differences are significant.

First of all, the internal codec of the FS-100 is AVC and the internal codec of the F-3 is XDCAM EX. The FS-100 has no built-in ND. The FS-100 does not have the image post-processing of the F-3. The FS-100 will shoot 60p by virture of the AVC codec. The internal processing and output of the FS-100 is 8-bit. The F3 is 10 bit.


The FS-700 will offer SDI output and this mysterious 4K, but it is still 8 bit. It includes a 3-position ND filter which the FS-100 lacks. The Arri rosette allows for accessorizing with industry standard connector. It has a slightly larger sensor.

So I would say that the differences between the FS-100 and the F-3 are substantial and the S-Log gamma curve and 4:4:4 dual link RGB are only a part of the picture.

This is not in any way to denigrate the FS-100, which can produce superb images and serves an important market niche.

But no one should be left with the opinion that the differences between the cameras are simply related to the S-log.

Ned
 
maarek said:
Yes. You only get 4:4:4 and dynamic range improvements with the s-log externally. Without it you are stuck with 4:2:0 mpeg2 at 35mbps. So yes, s-log is now basically the only real thing keeping them apart.
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You get a significant dynamic range increase internally. You do not need an external recorder for the increase in dynamic range.
 
Cory Braun said:
You get a significant dynamic range increase internally. You do not need an external recorder for the increase in dynamic range.
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So SLOG to SxS cards gives you the same dynamic range and tonality as SLOG to an external recorder (but you're then stuck with only 4:2:0 colour to grade that image back to something usable)?
 
Grug said:
So SLOG to SxS cards gives you the same dynamic range and tonality as SLOG to an external recorder (but you're then stuck with only 4:2:0 colour to grade that image back to something usable)?
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Yes that is correct regarding the dynamic range, but in 8bit recording you get far less gradations for each f-stop so it might not survive radical contrast adjustments. You could always record s-log with a LUT baked in so there's no need for such radical adjustments in post. This of course if you don't have the luxury of an external 10-bit recorder.
 
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But you need those radical contrast adjustments when working with S-log to get skin tones right. Unless you are shooting landscapeviews and like the look of the s-log as is. So an external recorder is very much advisable when shooting s-log.
 
It seems to me that one of the big differences will be the codec difference and perhaps also the internal processing of the FS700. I know nothing about AVCHD but everyone I've asked about it has said they don't like the codec. Maybe its just lack of familiarity. I didn't get a clear answer about sensitivity. Is this supposed to be as fast as an F3 or better.

Having just been to NAB, my guess is that the next thing out of Sony will be a higher end replacement for the F3 that will include all of these new features of the FS700 along with a decent viewfinder and better internal recording to compete with the C300 and perhaps even the Alexa. My guess (pure speculation) will be that it will cost more than an F3 but still far less than an Alexa. I think that the developers at Sony were warned to put better viewfinders in the F3 and they just went for cheap and faster development. Maybe a good choice last year but not anymore. How soon? No idea.
 
HI Lenny

Wish we had connected at NAB!

I am certain that your idea has occurred to Sony. the great question always is whether it would sell. They could make anything they want... but will the market embrace it.
 
Reading between the lines of conversations I had, my guess is the F3 will remain what it is and the next camera will be the next step up from it, otherwise why would they have hobbled the FS700 with an inferior codec and no 10 bit out - things that can't cost that much.
The question as always is when to sell and when & what to buy. Its very hard these days.
I find myself faced with a lot of things i would like to spend money on and not enough income to warrant many of them.
Yes too bad we didn't hook up. I was only there on Wed & thuirs so missed all the parties. Send me your phone # @
lenny@leonardlevy.net and next time I'll give you a call.
 
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