Is it worth selling my P2 gear?

KINOKS

KINOKS

Well-known member
I still have some P2 gear and an HPX171 that's catching dust. I waited for Pana to release a large sensor camcorder that uses P2 but it looks like that isn't happening any time soon. And even so, when it is going to happen I just don't want to side my self with a firm that is so slow on making progress now days. Compared to Sony or Canon that are making updates and upgrades to their lineup all the time.

So, my equipment is sitting here and loosing value. There is no point in waiting for Pana to release something, right?? Because I can just sell the HXP and keep the P2 cards if I wanted to...
 
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If you're not using the camera, then by all means, sell it. If it's not generating income for your business, then get a camera that can.
But I would hold on to the P2 cards. I held onto mine after I sold my HPX500. Now, I just got a great deal on an HPX300, so I can use the cards again.

If another company besides Panasonic provides you with a better solution for your production needs, then go for it. If Panny loses enough market share, then maybe they'll react accordingly and start putting out gear people will want to own. Brand loyalty can only go so far.
 
vanvideo said:
Brand loyalty can only go so far.
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Yes, my thoughts exactly.

Regarding P2, I guess you were lucky. But for me...I need a large sensor camcorder that uses P2. This, I think, isn't going to happen any time soon. But it's just so stupid selling P2 cards for (I don't know) lets say half for what I bought them because they are like new. It feels just like tossing money out the window.
 
I like buying used P2 cards, especially the R-series for 1/3 their original cost. The used market has really helped expand my capability that I otherwise could not afford.
 
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Seems like there isn't much interest or press in the newish hpx600, but it is a large sensor P2 cam, for a price. Shoots intra, will shoot ultra, is very upgradable, takes pro level glass, eng form factor, lots and lots of features. It just seems like a pretty expensive rig. Wish I knew how well it really performs. I really like the p2 system, but Panny does seem behind the curve. As soon as the af100 cam out, there was lots of pining for a daddy version; same form, intra, P2, maybe an EF mount. But that seems to have fallen on deaf ears. At this point, would I buy a hpx600, or even a hpx370 over the c100 or c300? Prolly not considering my L glass collection.
 
I like the HPX600, although I don't own one. Tough to get financing. My HPX300 will do for now, I guess. Here's some newer videos from a 600:

https://vimeo.com/72161409

https://vimeo.com/71074167


I agree, there's very little info and reviews on the 600. I like the 2/3" sensor, the AVC-Ultra upgrade, the light weight. I played with one for an hour or so, it was really nice.
I would pick one over a C300, but that's because the 600 is better matched to my ENG shooting style. Plus, I already have a 2/3" lens, P2 cards and A/B batteries.
 
I suspect the notion of a particular format for what now is essentially just storage, keeping consistent for many years just isn't going to happen any more because of the speed of development. Formats come and go so quickly, that it isn't really a consideration now. People buy cameras, and before the thing is paid for, it's out of fashion. I actually don't care, and have stopped chasing my tail. I'm treating every item I own now as a tool. If I no longer need it - IF - I can get a decent price for it, I will sell it without the attachment I used to have for items, but if it only fetches silly money, then I keep it. I just finished a project that needed lots of cameras, and a finished delivery medium on a long running time DVD. I used my HD cameras, my old 4:3 JVC 5100 (annoyed I sold the 500), a go pro, an SD9, and a Betacam that has a worn out recorder, so connected to a DSR11. The restriction on quality because of the heavy compression to squeeze it onto a DVD meant resolution really wasn't an issue. My museum of old kit earned money - way beyond it's sell by date. So if you have a P2 workflow, just keep the bits and pieces and buy your new kit for what it will do in the future, not because of what P2 did in the past. If you've moved into ultra-HD and mega quality, does waiting for a P2 version make any sense?
 
KINOKS said:
I still have some P2 gear and an HPX171 that's catching dust. I waited for Pana to release a large sensor camcorder that uses P2 but it looks like that isn't happening any time soon. And even so, when it is going to happen I just don't want to side my self with a firm that is so slow on making progress now days. Compared to Sony or Canon that are making updates and upgrades to their lineup all the time.

So, my equipment is sitting here and loosing value. There is no point in waiting for Pana to release something, right?? Because I can just sell the HXP and keep the P2 cards if I wanted to...
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Video format is a very tricky game to play and keep up. I waited for Panasonic to release 1080p before jumping in. Skipped the 720p. And good thing I did. Panasonic cam products are definitely biased toward broadcasters, which are mostly in 720p & 1080i. It will take decades before they can go to 4K native w/ new satellites & infrastructure. Their next Varicam 3 is still 1080p but with higher frame rates. It'll probably be another 4-5 years before they really get into 4K. For those w/ deep pockets and disposable income to waste, by all means go with the 4K craze. I think it's about 4-6 years too early to invest into 4K and expect making real profits from the investment. Here are my reason of not wanting to go to 4K just yet: (1) Fujinon 90-300 mm Cabrio PL-mount just doesn't have the reach. I do lots of high end super large venu concerts and wild life. You must have at least a 400-600 mm lens (in 2/3") or roughly 800-1200 mm in PL large sensor equivalent for the same super telephoto reach as on 2/3". 2) LTO-6 native capacity of 2.5 Tb is just too small. Will take several more years for LTO-7 to get within reasonable capacity for 4K file size. Hard drive is definitely not archival medium. I don't trust them for cold storage for anything longer than 2 years. So by 2017-2018 when the there is at least a 800 mm PL lens (if and only if) and LTO-7 tape archive w/ at least 5-6 Tb native, that's when I'll jump in to 4K. By then, 4K cams will be even better than 4K cam in 2013. For now, 1080p is just right.
 
paulears said:
I suspect the notion of a particular format for what now is essentially just storage, keeping consistent for many years just isn't going to happen any more because of the speed of development. Formats come and go so quickly, that it isn't really a consideration now.
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Except in the case of P2; isn't it still the only card format which records an I-Frame codec? There are other ways to get I-Frame, but they either include an external recorder, or something like a BlackMagic using a internal SS drive. No doubt there are many good recording codecs, but IMHO, I-Frame codecs are still the gold standard. What is weird with Panny is that they have probably the best codecs Intra and soon Ultra, and P2 is a great recording medium, but their cameras seem to be lagging. Their higher end cams still seem relevant in broadcast, their entry level pro gear, I'm not so sure.

Grant
 
paulears said:
I suspect the notion of a particular format for what now is essentially just storage, keeping consistent for many years just isn't going to happen any more because of the speed of development. Formats come and go so quickly, that it isn't really a consideration now.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree. And this is why I dislike proprietary media. Back when the HVX and the HPX were released I wasn't thinking like this, but today...that's another story.

paulears said:
So if you have a P2 workflow, just keep the bits and pieces and buy your new kit for what it will do in the future, not because of what P2 did in the past. If you've moved into ultra-HD and mega quality, does waiting for a P2 version make any sense?
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I don't know what makes sense any more:) I'm definitely not keeping it if I won't be using it. There is still some value in the gear that I have (albeit not that much: 3k maybe). I just feel let down by Pana. I invested in their format and now I'm loosing money over it. Oh well, what can you do...:)
 
ggrantly said:
No doubt there are many good recording codecs, but IMHO, I-Frame codecs are still the gold standard.
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Not necessarily - that statement may be true if the I-frame codec has a much higher bitrate than the inter-frame codec it's being compared to, but for inter/intra frame codecs OF THE SAME BITRATE then all else equal the interframe codec will beat the I-frame only codec hands down.

So whilst DVCProHD may give superior quality to HDV, that's far more down to it being 4x the bitrate than simply I-frame. Compare it to XDCAM422 and it's no longer the case - despite still being 2x the bitrate. Sheer compression quality aside, there are reasons to prefer I-frame codecs to inter frame in some circumstances (heavy post work and use within servers as example) but for a given base and bitrate, then you'll get higher quality from an interframe codec.

And as said above, then the latest PMW cameras will record I-frame only XAVC to SxS. But note that Sony are quite clear that it's not intended to replace XDCAM EX and 422, rather be another option. (And enable higher framerates and/or higher than 1080 resolutions.) The advantage of interframe is smaller file sizes for a given quality, hence less memory required for each hour of recording. That's still significant, even though memory is rapidly getting cheaper per GB.
 
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