Kit Hannah
Veteran
A lot of talk about that and the Tamron 17-50 2.8, for about half the price, Add $150 for the VC (stabilized) version. I have the Tamron 10-24 and love it, the perspective is amazing. The 17-50 will most likely be my next lens.
Is it worth it? Should i get the 7D? Cheapest way to get the 35mm movie like feel.
- Thread starter MFDOOM
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A lot of talk about that and the Tamron 17-50 2.8, for about half the price, Add $150 for the VC (stabilized) version. I have the Tamron 10-24 and love it, the perspective is amazing. The 17-50 will most likely be my next lens.
creative media
Active member
to OP, One of my freinds recently came to me with a similar situation. He loved the images he'd seen from the 7d so he asked me(a 7d user) to get him set up. The problem was he had a very tight budget and wanted to start shooting asap. long story short he got a t2i off ebay for $450 and some solid vintage glass for another couple hundred. under a thousand dollars and he now he's got a great basic kit to start off,and he was shooting in a week. imo the best way to go for as little as possible
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Good advice! Nothing wrong with being frugal in this game. If you can't find one on EBAY Canon direct often has refurbished cameras for a discount and a warranty is included.
maranfilms
Veteran
Actually the xha1 has higher resolution than the 7d. Im pretty sure the the hvx does to. The 7d, has fake resolution. Although it looks great (unless you pan, shoot brick, shingles, plaid clothing, or any other repeated pattern. You just have to learn to work within it's limitations. There's some beautiful hvx, a1 footage with dof adapters out there.
The ccd's are really good if you need to do fast pans, or fast zooms.
Oh wait, check out the xf100, 50mbps, 4:2:2, dual card slots. excellent low light for a traditional camcorder, excellent noise reduction. great audio. 3,000. Might be worth looking into.
Don't get me wrong, Im grabbing a dslr in the next few days, just got rid of a t2i, Actually traded it for an XHA1, with some money and other stuff. But I MISS THE LOW LIGHT ABILITY. I think im going with the 60d kit 18-135. or the t3i, not sure yet.
The ccd's are really good if you need to do fast pans, or fast zooms.
Oh wait, check out the xf100, 50mbps, 4:2:2, dual card slots. excellent low light for a traditional camcorder, excellent noise reduction. great audio. 3,000. Might be worth looking into.
Don't get me wrong, Im grabbing a dslr in the next few days, just got rid of a t2i, Actually traded it for an XHA1, with some money and other stuff. But I MISS THE LOW LIGHT ABILITY. I think im going with the 60d kit 18-135. or the t3i, not sure yet.
Kit Hannah
Veteran
The xha1 and hvx shoot higher than 1080p? Hrrrm. And it doesn't have "fake resolution". It uses a different process, but there's nothing fake about it. If you really want to get "real" about it, hvx uses pixelshifting from a slightly larger than SD CCD, but they all get to an acceptable result.
And you can get some beautiful footage without an adapter on the 7d.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
I think he was referring to the often quoted DLSR actual resolution being between SD and 720...Barry has a whole column about this where he talks about the aliasing that's always happening (but isn't offensive) giving the illusion of real detail. Anyway..the footage can be beautiful no matter the true resolution.
maranfilms
Veteran
Actually it does. And the process is called "temporal" Aliasing. The 7d may look like it's resolving 1080, but it's really only a little over half of that. So yeah, it is "fake" resolution. and the xha1 resolves more lines of resolution. Your correct about the hxv, it does use pixel shifting to upres to HD.
But like the above poster stated the image is beautiful from the dslr.
Kit Hannah
Veteran
People get so caught up about what's under the hood. So F'ing what? People point things out like that to prove what? To say it's an inferior camera? It's something that you will never be able to tell the difference on, never be able to perceive a difference. I don't care if there's 2 mystical bumble bees smashing rocks together inside my camera to somehow make the great images coming out of it - the point is, they look good. How it gets there should have no bearing on a decision- judge the final image, assess and weigh the issues, limitations, costs, workflow, etc. of the camera for your intended use.
"The xha1 uses the gfcx11 processor/resistor and utilizes quantum skew analogys to derive its image and I dunno about that".... blah blah blah. Whooooooo cares. It looks good. The cameras work for their intended use.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
+1 for a cheap t2i and vintage glass, and save money for all the accessories
on the "real DSLR resolution" issue: I know my t2i gives me beautiful images, I just wish they were a bit sharper, ie they were "real 1080p"... which doesn't mean I like the images coming out of traditional 1080p camcorders: I feel more detail, without the ability to erase it with DoF, creates freaky "artificial" pictures (I can never pinpoint what it is that I don't like, they just look "too clean" or "too detailed"... I know, I'm a bit of a psycho, I know...)
and of course, I have to link this:
http://prolost.com/blog/2010/9/2/ha-ha-very-funny-canon-now-get-back-to-work.html
on the "real DSLR resolution" issue: I know my t2i gives me beautiful images, I just wish they were a bit sharper, ie they were "real 1080p"... which doesn't mean I like the images coming out of traditional 1080p camcorders: I feel more detail, without the ability to erase it with DoF, creates freaky "artificial" pictures (I can never pinpoint what it is that I don't like, they just look "too clean" or "too detailed"... I know, I'm a bit of a psycho, I know...)
and of course, I have to link this:
http://prolost.com/blog/2010/9/2/ha-ha-very-funny-canon-now-get-back-to-work.html
550D if you must have Canon. GH2 if Panasonic doesn't sound too strange. If your films are going to be seen mostly on web, you can get as film like footage with these cameras as you can with pro digital cinema cameras. But it isn't the camera, it's how you use it. It's harder (and impossible if you compare dynamic range for example) to get the same look with these cameras, but it can be done so 99% of the people will not see any difference (on web).
8string
Well-known member
I've owned the T2i and the 7D, and the 7D is a much better built camera than the T2i. I traded up for environmental casing, which if you shoot out in the rain, or heavy mist, or snow, is a must have feature. I miss the M.L. hack, but WTH. Live HDMI out is wonderful. The camera has better settings on it. If you shot in a studio most of the time and just needed an occasional use of deep DOF, then yeah, the T2i is fine. For banging around in the field, go 7D.
But really, for shooting general video, a 'real' video camera is superior to any HDSLR, from ergonomics, monitoring audio, and many other features. Doing HDSLR video is about gluing together a bunch of stuff that using something like my HMC 150, I totally avoid. If you shoot live bands, for example, I always have the 150 running as at least the establishing or distant shot. Much easier to come off a board into the XLRs, and you can just let it run all day without overheating.
So there you have it... And yes, you will spend about the same amount of money on an HMC 150 and a 7D. You need telephoto lenses, wide angle lens, normal lens with the 7D or T2i. It's all there with the 150.
Best of luck
Snapper123
Well-known member
60D - has the most features without hacking (has virtually everything the T2i hack does) and has the very useful flip screen. Also, it comes with a much better kit lens and packs the most features for the buck.
T2i - if you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd try and find this camera used, as it should be the camera that users are selling for around $500 around now. What makes this camera special is that the hack gives you everything found on a 60D, which is great for those who want to save money and can truly find a great deal on the camera. I would not get the 18-55mm kit lens though, you need a broader range kit for filmmaking. Also, I would not suggest getting this camera if you don't want to hack or buy used, the in-store price is VERY overpriced.
T3i - basically, I wouldn't consider this camera unless you want something a tiny bit smaller than the 60D, and a few weird features like eye-fi support and what is possibly a 1080P crop mode?? Overall, this one doesn't have the dedicated ISO's or white balances, and I think it's missing a few other things of the 60D. I'm not sure, just weigh out what is useful to you.
7D - I think this should be the last camera on everyone's mind until they come out with a hack that's good as the T2i's, this camera doesn't have manual audio, very few features beyond the T2i, and the high-def monitor output is really it's only special feature - this may truly be a good feature for those who want to watch out for moire. Also, it has the weather sealed body (I would not say it means waterproof), so if you do a lot of rugged shooting, it may be much better.
GH2 - Personally, if you're open to hacking, this is the best camera to get and has the most features and the least moire and quality loss. Hands down, it's also being used for projects and yielding much better results. If you don't hack, then this camera does interlaced, which may yield confusing results.
Nikon D7000 - This Nikon seems to be the only Nikon with manual movie mode, which is essential in filmmaking, and feature wise, it has a blend of things found between the T2i and 60D. (but no swivel screen and no manual audio.) It's video mode is said to be slightly sharper than Canon's.
The thing to keep in mind is that with the exception of the hacked GH2, these cameras seem to have awful quality at the full resolution video, and before you buy any of them, I would ask someone to send you an unedited file of a subject that was shot from a realistic filmmaking distance away (say a flower from a perception of 5 feet away). Macro shot videos look stunning on these cameras, but when it comes to filmmaking distances that are not macro, such as dialogue shots or establishing shots, these cameras have a technology (pixel binning) that causes the quality to wash away dramatically as the camera gets further from the subject. Luckily, for the majority of purposes, 1080P is plenty enough resolution to play around with (down rez'ing or whatever you prefer to make the videos look better) and in the end, you'll have a camera that is amazing for many needs.
The one thing I always say is that these cameras are indeed good cameras for students of film to use (I don't mean teenagers, I mean anyone who is shooting local projects and short films), and they will be the cameras that will most likely serve you well while you build up a portfolio and a reel. Personally, I don't suggest shooting major films with them unless it's for a macro style shot, otherwise I believe there will always be a place for camera like the Red One, Sony F3, ect ect - it doesn't require a fortune to rent these professional cameras from the local rental house. But for everything else short of the cinema projects, I believe I would trust them in most scenarios. I'd watch out on distance subjects though, again.
T2i - if you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd try and find this camera used, as it should be the camera that users are selling for around $500 around now. What makes this camera special is that the hack gives you everything found on a 60D, which is great for those who want to save money and can truly find a great deal on the camera. I would not get the 18-55mm kit lens though, you need a broader range kit for filmmaking. Also, I would not suggest getting this camera if you don't want to hack or buy used, the in-store price is VERY overpriced.
T3i - basically, I wouldn't consider this camera unless you want something a tiny bit smaller than the 60D, and a few weird features like eye-fi support and what is possibly a 1080P crop mode?? Overall, this one doesn't have the dedicated ISO's or white balances, and I think it's missing a few other things of the 60D. I'm not sure, just weigh out what is useful to you.
7D - I think this should be the last camera on everyone's mind until they come out with a hack that's good as the T2i's, this camera doesn't have manual audio, very few features beyond the T2i, and the high-def monitor output is really it's only special feature - this may truly be a good feature for those who want to watch out for moire. Also, it has the weather sealed body (I would not say it means waterproof), so if you do a lot of rugged shooting, it may be much better.
GH2 - Personally, if you're open to hacking, this is the best camera to get and has the most features and the least moire and quality loss. Hands down, it's also being used for projects and yielding much better results. If you don't hack, then this camera does interlaced, which may yield confusing results.
Nikon D7000 - This Nikon seems to be the only Nikon with manual movie mode, which is essential in filmmaking, and feature wise, it has a blend of things found between the T2i and 60D. (but no swivel screen and no manual audio.) It's video mode is said to be slightly sharper than Canon's.
The thing to keep in mind is that with the exception of the hacked GH2, these cameras seem to have awful quality at the full resolution video, and before you buy any of them, I would ask someone to send you an unedited file of a subject that was shot from a realistic filmmaking distance away (say a flower from a perception of 5 feet away). Macro shot videos look stunning on these cameras, but when it comes to filmmaking distances that are not macro, such as dialogue shots or establishing shots, these cameras have a technology (pixel binning) that causes the quality to wash away dramatically as the camera gets further from the subject. Luckily, for the majority of purposes, 1080P is plenty enough resolution to play around with (down rez'ing or whatever you prefer to make the videos look better) and in the end, you'll have a camera that is amazing for many needs.
The one thing I always say is that these cameras are indeed good cameras for students of film to use (I don't mean teenagers, I mean anyone who is shooting local projects and short films), and they will be the cameras that will most likely serve you well while you build up a portfolio and a reel. Personally, I don't suggest shooting major films with them unless it's for a macro style shot, otherwise I believe there will always be a place for camera like the Red One, Sony F3, ect ect - it doesn't require a fortune to rent these professional cameras from the local rental house. But for everything else short of the cinema projects, I believe I would trust them in most scenarios. I'd watch out on distance subjects though, again.
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Samuel H
Major Contributor
was the GH2 hacked already? I thought it was the GH1 only, so far
edit: still not there
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?237665-GH2-hack&p=2263982&viewfull=1#post2263982
plus, the GH2 does progressive 1080p24 with a high enough bitrate; it's all the other frame rates that bring trouble (and there, it's the lower bitrate that creates the biggest problems)
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Aaron De Pry
Active member
No it has not been hacked yet, but the hack is in progress and the GH2 does have native 24p output without a 60i wrapper.
Personally I would wait a year on the canon end of things to see what their new FF is going to offer. In the mean time pick up a T2i or hackable Gh1 for cheap. They are both great cameras and somewhat undervalued due to the release of newer products. There is the magic lantern hack out for the t2i right now and it is pretty sweet! You get zebras, in camera bitrate control, broader ISO range, Dial white balance, and audio gain disable (with onscreen monitoring!).
If you have your heart set on one of the new models then get the GH2. It has better image quality, solid video codec (has mpeg2 and AVCHD on camera), no overheating issues, no moire, and no record limit. Canon needs to play a little catch-up with their video functions and I cannot wait to see what they come up with!
Personally I would wait a year on the canon end of things to see what their new FF is going to offer. In the mean time pick up a T2i or hackable Gh1 for cheap. They are both great cameras and somewhat undervalued due to the release of newer products. There is the magic lantern hack out for the t2i right now and it is pretty sweet! You get zebras, in camera bitrate control, broader ISO range, Dial white balance, and audio gain disable (with onscreen monitoring!).
If you have your heart set on one of the new models then get the GH2. It has better image quality, solid video codec (has mpeg2 and AVCHD on camera), no overheating issues, no moire, and no record limit. Canon needs to play a little catch-up with their video functions and I cannot wait to see what they come up with!
Cory Braun
Well-known member
Would you mind PMing me some links to some inexpensive light kits?
arniepix
Well-known member
Keith Dadey
New member
I bought the Canon 60D in December and love it. I was aware that it, the 7D and the T2i all have the same sensor, but what sold me was the flip out LCD viewfinder. It's about 10% higher res than the 7D or T2i, but the convenience of being able to see the viewfinder from just about anywhere is a huge plus. Shoot from over your head, the floor, in front of the camera, or around a corner if you want to be stealthy while shooting. Plus, as mentioned earlier, you'll save about $400-$500 for the exact same look as the 7D.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
B and H or Adorama...they are very basic kits - but if you only have so much money then it's either basic, used, or DIY (There's a lot of people that rig stuff up to do what they need)