Is it worth getting the zoom h4n over the DVX for audio recording?

H

Hutchman

Active member
Hey guys,

Currently shooting gh2 and recording audio from ntg1 and nt3 into my old DVX. It's a huge pain having to capture all the audio in real time and the SD cards on the H4n looks good.

Is the H4N about the same quality as recording into the DVX, or better, or worse?

THANKS
 
I'd take the TASCAM DR-40 over the H4n. Better pre-amps, better input options, better overall quality and sound.

But please do note that these hand-held recorders are clumsy in their own ways (not bag friendly being the primary challenge). Have you read the sticky about cheap recorders?
 
Thanks a lot Alex. Would you say the Tascam had about the same audio quality as the DVX, or better or worse? I'm happy with the quality of the DVX's audio, but I really want to eliminate tape from my workflow.
 
I think you'll be perfectly happy with the quality of the DR-40 moving from DVX audio. There is one challenge, though... the NTG-2 (same as NTG-1) has a lower output than other shotguns and tends to force many of the hand-held recorders' pre-amps to push past 75% in order to get proper (or close to proper) recording levels. This adds noise. I have not tried one of these with the DR-40, but the pre-amps are supposed to be equal to or better than the DR-100.

I love my DR-40, but I use it mostly as to grab quick sound beds using the on-board mics, or occasionally to record line-level from a mixer.
 
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My view is that DVX audio is no worse than what cheap pocket recorders produce. One gadget less, no sync issues with straight to cam audio. The best solution is a good mixer like SD302, but that costs a lot more, alas.
 
I don't know about the H4n specifically, but, basically, ANY dedicated recorder will record better sound. The camera is a much noisier electrical environment than a dedicated audio recorder. The DVX is not bad as cameras go, but you will hear a big difference in post if you have to boost the levels much.

I spent years recording audio dual-system with the DVX (and since then, with the HVX and HMC), using various recorders, and the second recording has always been preferable.

Now, I will add the caveat that I'D STAY AWAY FROM ZOOM! All the Zoom recorders I 've tried (and there are many reports on the web) have timing problems. They drift an order of magnitude more than any other device I've ever used. I shoot longform, so this is a major problem for me... it tends to be on the order of 1/2 to 1 second per hour... but that's pretty annoying! I use an R24 as emergency multitrack backup for some things... and hope never to have to use its recordings... but in my testing, drift was a steady 4ms per minute. Not a huge issue if your shots are all short, but a nightmare to stretch and sync when your shots are an hour or more long...
 
Believe it or not, ullanta, .5 to 1 sec over an hour is not bad for any recorder not tied direct to camera through timecode sync.

TC drift is the result of the oscillator chip in the timing circuit. And you can't just point to the recorder. Cameras drift too. Shooting a reality (longform), the EX-1's had a good second or 2 drift from each other after an hour. But we could solve that by jam sync'ing the cameras twice a day and creative edits. Unless you have a solid TC interlink, drift is the nature of the beast.

If you are not shooting longform (extremely long takes over 20 minutes) then the drift should not be an issue.

I like my H4n, but I also know it's limitations. But yes, external audio is almost always preferable to in-camera (any camera) audio. But like Alex said, the NTG series mics are not known for their output. You will need something to bump up the output of them to get anything really usable on the H4n. A mixer comes to mind, seeing how that's what I do with mine and I have been doing some pretty cool paid stuff lately. The clients are very happy with my results (the big test of what you do/how you do it).

I look at the H4n (and other similar recorders) as like the DSLR revolution. Sure, just coming out, people said it was not worth it and it was a toy. But they said the same about DSLR's, and look what's going on there. As long as you don't expect frills and you know those limitations, and some of the features a more expensive recorder has, the H4n does a decent job as just a recorder/tape deck.

:happy:You'd be surprised what I have used my H4n on.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
A mixer comes to mind, seeing how that's what I do with mine and I have been doing some pretty cool paid stuff lately.
Click to expand...

Speaking of mixers... and battery powered mixers for mobile situations... I was looking at the Behringer Xenyx 1002B and noticed that for 'battery operation', the Phantom power was 18V.

The question I have is, how well do mics respond to an 18V phantom power supply...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
The question I have is, how well do mics respond to an 18V phantom power supply...
Click to expand...

As a very, very general rule of thumb, my finding is that the more expensive the microphone, the less well it will tolerate non-standard phantom voltages. My low-end Sennheisers (ME66/67 and ME-2 lavs) do fine even at 12V, as do my lower-end Shure recording studio mics (SM94s). My mid-range Shures (SM81, SM44) kinda work, but start to distort more and more as the voltage goes down. Most of the Schoeps and Neumann mics I've tried won't even turn on with a 12V or 18V supply. I haven't tried my Rode lavs yet except on 48V.

- Greg
 
Doc Bernard said:
Believe it or not, ullanta, .5 to 1 sec over an hour is not bad for any recorder not tied direct to camera through timecode sync.
Click to expand...

Not! That is, I don't believe it! I've worked with many cheap recorders, from DAT to minidisc to CF/SD, and other than the Zooms, all have been in the range of 1-5 FRAMES of drift per hour, most about 2. To me, the Zoom's 15-30 frames per hour is far outside the normal range.

Maybe I've been lucky.. but for me this has been the case with various recorders and the DVX, HVX, and HMC....

Like I said, if you google "Zoom timing drift" there are tons of comparisons of zoom recorders against other devices, and the Zooms are just way out there....

What else have you used that's so bad, Doc?
 
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