F3: Is it worth buying the old PL Kit from Sony

F

Fader8

Well-known member
Hi everybody,

I am seeking for new lenses for my Sony FS 100. I don't have too much money, though.
I currently have the chance to buy the old PL Kit from Sony 35mm 50mm 85mm for aprox:

2500 Dollars. I know that they aren't very high-end class, but still quite remarkable and sharp.

Would the Samyang 35mm 85mm be a better choice.

Wouldn't this be a very nice deal for 3 lenses?

On the other hand I ask myself if it is worth to buy PL-Mount lenses, because I coudln't mount them
on a stills camera or EF Mount Cameras!

I would appreciate some opinions/suggestions/experiences!

Thank you guys :)
 
Fader8 said:
Hi everybody,

I am seeking for new lenses for my Sony FS 100. I don't have too much money, though.
I currently have the chance to buy the old PL Kit from Sony 35mm 50mm 85mm for aprox:

2500 Dollars. I know that they aren't very high-end class, but still quite remarkable and sharp.

Would the Samyang 35mm 85mm be a better choice.

Wouldn't this be a very nice deal for 3 lenses?

On the other hand I ask myself if it is worth to buy PL-Mount lenses, because I coudln't mount them
on a stills camera or EF Mount Cameras!

I would appreciate some opinions/suggestions/experiences!

Thank you guys :)
Click to expand...

1) you can mount PL mount lenses on any camera with the right adapter, although sometimes it's at significant effort and cost. I've put my Cooke lenses on 5dmII's, 7d's, NEX5's, GH2's, and more.

2) the original three Sony lenses weren't that bad optically. On paper they did stack up with other lens sets which were more expensive.

3) that said, as an investment, they are not the best way to go, unless only you plan to use them and can live with those shortcomings. If anything look into the new Sony PL lenses. These are a direct result of Sony embarrassingly correcting their lackluster 1st attempt.

A) plastic housings and bad quality left defects in some of the geared rings, and almost ensured repeat repairs would eventually strip the screw threads in the plastic. The lenses were not made like other cinema lenses for repeat maintenance.

B) The focus scales lacked in frequency and there were not any witness mark lines with the numbers, a sure fire sign each lens wasn't engraved for accuracy, but instead a mass printed focus mark sale was installed saving money on lack of precision needed on every lens.


there were more issues, like there are only three, pl mount tolerances seemed to off on some sets, and they were ghastly large, although not alone in that category. look through dvxuser history to find them.

If you only need three lenses, focus by eye or monitor only and do not rent out lenses to bigger scale productions, these budget lenses (in cost and mechanics) could be a decent buy so long as you don't plan on servicing them much and throwing them away in the future. Otherwise, I don't know any productions I work on that would accept those lenses for the aforementioned reasons. Most rental houses I know in LA who had the F3 and the original three Sony lenses have sold off those lenses.


Again, if using these lenses as a one-man-band and you only focus by monitor than these might be for you if you like how they look.

For me they lacked a pleasing look and the mechanics were a deal breaker. But nobody will tell you they optically sucked. They were right up there with others entry level cinema lenses as far as sharpness, etc.
 
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I wouldn't do it.

Something to consider is that surely at some point need more than just those three focal lengths.. which Sony doesn't make. So you might have better luck with just a few Samyangs, Nikons, or ZF2's which later if you want you can add more and at least they will be sort of the "same".

As Ryan pointed out, optically there is nothing bad to really say about them. I guess the question is why you want them, ie. for the look, just to have, you're ok if they don't perform mechanically, etc..

Best of luck with your decision.
 
That is a remarkably low price for these lenses... like unbelievably good. You will not find lenses with this kind of throw on either the focus or iris ring for this amount of money. By throw I mean the amount of rotational distance from one end of the ring to the other.

Ryan brings up a lot of good points, as usual, however, in this price range they are a tremendous deal.

If you are going to buy them and they are local make sure you have your PL mount adapter with you, as you will want to see if they mount properly. There have been comments that these PL mounts are just slightly different than the standard sizing. You should also give them a go before you buy to see if the size works for you and do check out the rather decent bokeh on these particularly the 50 and moreoverly the 85mm.

If they aren't what you want Dennis's suggestions about going the Nikon or Zeiss ZF are a good option as well. Nikon makes some excellent rectalinear F2.8 zoom lenses. Lots of info on this in the archives here.

I have the lenses and like them although the size is troublesome particularly if you are shooting alone without a magliner cart beside you.
 
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I have this set with my Sony F3 and really like them. My only warning is to make sure your follow focus will work with them. They are rather large in diameter, and some FF will not clear the bottom of the lens with the rods in the standard position to fit the matte box, etc. For wider, I use the Optitek adapter and either the Nikon 17-35 2.8 or the 11-16 Tokina. This takes me from 11 to 85 and so far I just have not needed anything longer. In spite of all the criticism, and granted I have no experience with more expensive PL lenses, i really do appreciate these lenses in that they are light, have long focus and iris throw, and very nice image quality. I bet the newer set is really nice.
 
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lasikdenver said:
I have this set with my Sony F3 and really like them. My only warning is to make sure your follow focus will work with them. They are rather large in diameter, and some FF will not clear the bottom of the lens with the rods in the standard position to fit the matte box, etc. For wider, I use the Optitek adapter and either the Nikon 17-35 2.8 or the 11-16 Tokina. This takes me from 11 to 85 and so far I just have not needed anything longer. In spite of all the criticism, and granted I have no experience with more expensive PL lenses, i really do appreciate these lenses in that they are light, have long focus and iris throw, and very nice image quality. I bet the newer set is really nice.
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Are you using the canon optitek and tokina 11-16? I just tried that combo on my f5 and can't seem to get it to focus at infinity.
 
Thank you guys for all the nice and clear answers you gave me.

I can say, that I'm not a professional yet, nor have I the money for better Lenses. My other choice would
be the two Samyang lenses. Disadvantage --> they don't have a 50mm in their collection.

Personally, I think I'll be quite happy with three lenses. Well if I add up, I might not have e 100% equal image, but as
I said I am not a professional Production Company.

@Ohara: Yes, Im a one man show so far. Nice that you can recommend it for that!

Nice that FF was mentioned. Would you think i will work with a Gini Rig/Gini FF, which I consider to buy?

@lansikdenver: I don't really understand: "some FF will not clear the bottom of the lens with the rods in the standard position to fit the matte box, etc"

But in the end I think it is quite a nice price for 3 glasses which quite have some qulity!


Cheers
 
Thank you guys for all the nice and clear answers you gave me.

I can say, that I'm not a professional yet, nor have I the money for better Lenses. My other choice would
be the two Samyang lenses. Disadvantage --> they don't have a 50mm in their collection.

Personally, I think I'll be quite happy with three lenses. Well if I add up, I might not have e 100% equal image, but as
I said I am not a professional Production Company.

@Ohara: Yes, Im a one man show so far. Nice that you can recommend it for that!

Nice that FF was mentioned. Would you think i will work with a Gini Rig/Gini FF, which I consider to buy?

@lansikdenver: I don't really understand: "some FF will not clear the bottom of the lens with the rods in the standard position to fit the matte box, etc"

But in the end I think it is quite a nice price for 3 glasses which quite have some qulity!


Cheers
 
I repeat, buy the lenses. For the price they are a great deal and the supposed shortcomings are unlikely to make a damn bit of difference to someone who describes themselves as "not being a professional yet". This set of lenses would be a great place to start and you won't outgrow them soon.
 
I have the Genus Superior FF with the new style attachment, and it works fine, the Genus Bravo also works which is what I used to use. The lens is so big, that there is little clearance beneath it and any FF which sticks up will not work with 15 mm standard rods. I have a Shape 6000 rig and an O'Connor matte box which match perfectly with the 15 mm rods. The clearance under the lens will not allow any follow focus that has much vertical height. If you have an adjustable height base plate and can adjust the matte box height, then this would probably not be an issue.
 
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I have an O'Connor FF1 follow-focus, an O'connor O-Box, and an O'Connor universal base plate and they all work great with the three Sony lenses mounted on the F3, FS100, and F55. But, for a beginner, none of that extra stuff is needed. You can keep things simple and still get great results with nothing but the naked lens and camera. A lot of people get too caught up in pimping the camera. A matte box is often totally unnecessary unless you have the right filters to go with it, and a FF almost always unnecessary for a one-man band operation. Personally, I rarely use my FF because even the most expensive model can't compare to the silky-smooth precision of turning the focus ring by hand. On the other hand, a really good tripod is where extra funds will really make a difference and that's where I'd recommend most people direct their money when buying accessories. Camera first, then lenses, then tripod, and then you can pimp the camera.
 
On the one level, I agree with Doug. Optically these are not bad lenses. For $2500, you have primes that you can use. I would make certain, though, that they have not been beaten to death and the plastic cases and worse mechanisms are damaged. On another level, cine-modded Zeiss ZF with an Optitek adapter gives you a fine package for a bit more, depending upon how many lenses you want. And a wider range of focal lengths. They will last longer.

Now you have all kinds of conflicting advice, aren't you sorry you asked? ;)

Ned Soltz
 
One thing to consider, these lens are not very serviceable. They have internally "screws in plastic" and it they have any lock-tight material on them you can forget ever getting a screw out and back in. Duclus Lens had one apart and his view was that Sony would probably toss in the trash and give you a new one, if it was ever sent in for any problems. Also they would not have a long shelf life in terms of a regular PL lens life.
So once there gone, there gone and there will be slim pickens to replace the lens you can't get fixed.... This is the long term, ownership view...
 
Fader8 said:
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/04/triad-pl-to-e-mount-adapter-a-pl-adapter-for-the-fs100-and-fs700/

is this true? I thought PL Mount is PL Mount, which adapters would work with these Lenses?
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Some early batches of the first gen Sony primes, the flange of the PL mount was just a few hundredths of an inch too thick out of spec, making them incompatible with SOME PL mount assemblies on various cameras.

I believe Sony fixed it in later batches.

It was also fixable on some body-side PL mounts by partially disassembling the mount and unscrewing the whole lock ring assembly maybe 180º, and reassembling, therefore allowing for thicker flanges.
 
I go back to saying this is just a money pit with some risks and factors that makes it a bad investment. Also should you ever decide to sell them for any reason, you will likely have to offer them at a good deal in order to sell them, which is why you are getting a good deal on them yourself. I just don't think there is enough demand for them and so buyers for 1st generation Sony PL's are hard to find.

Why not consider a nice set Zeiss Contax lenses? Or $1600 easily buys you Nikons: 28mm f2, 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, and with the $1000 you save you can get a Optitek lens adapter. Rent better PL's when the job calls for them where you can spec out the exact lens kit you want.

Anyway my 2 cents. Let us know what you decide and be sure to post some pics!
 
starcentral said:
I go back to saying this is just a money pit with some risks and factors that makes it a bad investment. Also should you ever decide to sell them for any reason, you will likely have to offer them at a good deal in order to sell them, which is why you are getting a good deal on them yourself. I just don't think there is enough demand for them and so buyers for 1st generation Sony PL's are hard to find.

Why not consider a nice set Zeiss Contax lenses? Or $1600 easily buys you Nikons: 28mm f2, 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, and with the $1000 you save you can get a Optitek lens adapter. Rent better PL's when the job calls for them where you can spec out the exact lens kit you want.

Anyway my 2 cents. Let us know what you decide and be sure to post some pics!
Click to expand...

The one thing the Sony's will give you is the meta data to the camera and the files that regular manual lenses won't. At $2,500 I'd probably buy them, but I wouldn't plan on keeping them forever.

There is a nice set of Zeiss Contax PL cine mods on Ebay, but they are $10,000. Contax are very sharp and they seem to give a little more latitude in post due to low contrast.
 
The seller decided to sell it to someone who was willing to spend more money.

I will go now with the samyang cinelenses as i would like to try out a long focus pull :)
 
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