Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

B

B.C.Johnson

Member
...with all this talk of cheap 24p HD cameras on the rise?

This thread threw me for a loop.

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=sony;action=display;num=1099339143

I can hardly believe how amazing the resolution is - many times better than anything SD DV could produce.

So even with several prospective film projects on the horizon, would it be advantageous to wait until an affordable prosumer HD camera becomes available?

Will HD cameras be in the same price range as the DVX in the next several months? (12+)
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

well from what I heard, in order to edit HD you need a pretty good system and massive storage space (maybe i've missed other stuff but thats the last I've heard).
I've seen the footage of the HDV cameras and altohugh i think it looks like great video, I dont see it being as filmic as the DVX (which is really the reason I just bought it 2 weeks ago).
the DVX is a great camera, which im sure will last me for years to come, plus, up-ressing it using the photozoom product seems to almost match it with HDV footage, atleast from what I could tell in Barry's DVD
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

[quote author=B.C.Johnson link=board=sony;num=1100620356;start=0#0 date=11/16/04 at 07:25:38]
So even with several prospective film projects on the horizon, would it be advantageous to wait until an affordable prosumer HD camera becomes available?

[/quote]

It's funny how film projects can stay on the horizon FOREVER if you don't get to it. But I definetly sympathize. It's difficult trying to figure out what to get these days between the DVX100a, XL2, Sony's HDV, and these Homemade HD cameras.

I don't think the Homemade stuff is the best thing to be investing in right now. Mostly because I've been following the projects on DVinfo.net and I'm getting the feeling that schematics for making your own HD camera aren't coming for quite a while. And even then, the systems have a long, long way to go until they mature and the workflow is worked out. I know that Obin Olson was excited this last week because he finally figured out how to get 24fps of 1080p without dropping any frames. That's awesome, but he figured it's going to currently cost him $500 in harddrives for 30 minutes of storage. Maybe that price will drop dramatically if he can capture 720p instead, but the point is that the entire homemade HD camera world is filled with questions and what-ifs. Very, very exciting work, but it's not exactly ready for primetime.

So then you're left with the DVX, the XL2, and the new FX1 HDV camera. And that's an equally difficult decision. The hardest thing about investing in a DVX right now is that you just KNOW that within 3 months of buying one, the price is going to drop.
With the FX1 at virtually the same price point, there's a very, very real possibility that the DVX is going to drop in price.

Also, I'm very interested in what good cinematographers will be able to do with their FX1's using well lit sets and all the post tools that are out there now. I hope to see some surprisingly beautiful films come out of that camera in the next 3-4 months. I say surprisingly because a lot of people including myself are really upset at the FX1's lack of 24p, it's low data rate, and a picture that has quite a few artifacts. Still, it's a new tool and I expect it will lead to some interesting films.

Finally, you just know that Panasonic is going to release a DVX200 the moment you buy a DVX100a...

So somehow, instead of answering your question, I've probably just confused and scared you, as well as myself. Damn. I'll end with, if you've got a project, get working on it now. Don't wait 6 months. Better to buy a DVX100a right now, make a movie, make another movie, make a third movie, sell the camera in 8-9 months, buy the newly released DVX200a, make another movie using 24p HDV, make more movies, make something that's horrible that you have to throw into your fireplace and go to confession to ask forgiveness for, make a great film that you didn't know you had in you, sell the DVX200a, make your own Homemade HD Cinema camera, make more movies.... and suddenly it's 2 years later and you're a much, much better filmmaker. Time is precious. Your tools are not.
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

[quote author=Hayden_Rivers link=board=sony;num=1100620356;start=0#4 date=11/16/04 at 12:28:34]
So somehow, instead of answering your question, I've probably just confused and scared you, as well as myself.  Damn.  I'll end with, if you've got a project, get working on it now.  Don't wait 6 months.  Better to buy a DVX100a right now, make a movie, make another movie, make a third movie, sell the camera in 8-9 months, buy the newly released DVX200a, make another movie using 24p HDV, make more movies, make something that's horrible that you have to throw into your fireplace and go to confession to ask forgiveness for, make a great film that you didn't know you had in you, sell the DVX200a, make your own Homemade HD Cinema camera, make more movies.... and suddenly it's 2 years later and you're a much, much better filmmaker.  Time is precious.  Your tools are not.[/quote]

What an incredibly inspirational post! I felt like getting up and shouting HELL YEAH!!!! But I'm sitting in a computer lab at school, and it probably would have seemed somewhat outlandish.

I keep forgetting that creativity is the presence of limitation. Instead of using the tools I have in a clever way, I agonize over what could be if I just had better equipment. And you're 10000% right. I'll never get anything accomplished if I just sit here stewing around thinking about things "I don't have."

Thanks!
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

[quote author=B.C.Johnson link=board=sony;num=1100620356;start=0#5 date=11/16/04 at 13:06:22]

What an incredibly inspirational post! I felt like getting up and shouting HELL YEAH!!!! But I'm sitting in a computer lab at school, and it probably would have seemed somewhat outlandish.

I keep forgetting that creativity is the presence of limitation. Instead of using the tools I have in a clever way, I agonize over what could be if I just had better equipment. And you're 10000% right. I'll never get anything accomplished if I just sit here stewing around thinking about things "I don't have."

Thanks![/quote]

Use the force luke!
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

[quote author=B.C.Johnson link=board=sony;num=1100620356;start=0#0 date=11/16/04 at 07:25:38]So even with several prospective film projects on the horizon, would it be advantageous to wait until an affordable prosumer HD camera becomes available?

Will HD cameras be in the same price range as the DVX in the next several months? (12+)[/quote]
How much more affordable can the new FX1 be? I think the Sony is at an excellent price now. The consumer FX1 at $3700 is roughly the same cost as the DVX.

FX1 HDV Disadvantages
* Lack of true 24p
* Lack of XLRs (addressed in the pro-model)
* Robust hardware requirements (CPU/RAM, Hard drive space intensive)
* Immature HDV software support
* Limited transport methods (until the arrival of HD-DVD, Blu-Ray in 2005)
* Low percentage of HD support (currently) within mainstream public

FX1 HDV Advantages
* 16:9 Native CCD
* HD Resolution
* HD/SD flexibility
* Numerous manual control options
* Future compatibility
* Same price point as SD (XL2 and DVX)

The DVX (or the XL2) has the advantage of 24p and a better (perceived) "film look". Coupled that with the many NLE software packages available and it becomes a natural choice for hopeful filmmakers that want/need to get their feet on the ground and running immediately. HDV on the other hand will require time for software and hardware to mature and become available to the public. However, HDV is the future (relatively speaking). It does have many advantages that SD simply cannot compete with. Yes, Sony dropped the ball big time by not including 24p, but for low-budget filmmakers the advantages of the FX1 will far outweigh (IMO) anything the DVX and XL2 can bring to the table. Already, some very impressive and "filmic" screen grabs are becoming available. By spring of next year, in capable hands, the strengths of the FX1 will start to eventually bear fruit.

So, is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon? For me, it's not. The FX1 (or its pro-version) more than meets my needs.
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

[quote author=B.C.Johnson link=board=sony;num=1100620356;start=0#0 date=11/16/04 at 07:25:38]...with all this talk of cheap 24p HD cameras on the rise?[/quote]
Is there any talk of a cheap 24P HD camera? There are cheap (meaning under $5000) HD cameras, but none of 'em offer 24P. And there's talk of an HDV camera with 24P (from JVC) but not cheap: $20,000.
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

Hi Barry:

Did you ever receive your FX-1? If so, what are your impressions of it so far? Or did you already post this answer elsewhere?

Dan
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

I didn't order an FX1, I ordered the model above it (the Z1) which won't be available for a couple more months.

The FX1 looks like a very nice camera, solidly built, some good features, kind of like a hybrid DVX/PD150 in design. It's impressive, but I haven't spent enough time with it to make any conclusions about it (other than I HATE the audio system on it).
 
Re: Is it wise to get on the DVX bandwagon...

I was checking at Amazon.com and they just dropped the price of the DVX100a by a $120. You gotta love progress.

edit: The price is $3,324.99, down from $3444.
 
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