Is it time to dump Adobe?

K

KrocanX

Well-known member
Hi,

what do you think about anti-Adobe mood on forums and all over the internet? I am Adobe user and, of course, customer for 13 years. It helped me start my career back then but after receiving license of Resolve Studio with Pocket 4K at the same time as I received invoice for my annual Adobe subscription (725 euro for us Europeans) I have started thinking about it. I have always been happy with Adobe, lots of apps, "free" updates, never had major problems with stability. But you know 725 euro every year is quite a lot when you have full license of Resolve installed.

Fast forward today and I have moved almost completely. Resolve replaced Premiere and Fusion 9 replaced After Effects. Leaving AE behind was way more difficult than dumping Premiere but in the end after couple of evenings with tutorials...here we are. I still keep Photoshop with Lightroom (mainly because of Mobile version which is great!) even though there are some good alternatives. Hope Resolve and Fusion won't go away anytime soon:)).

How about you folks?
 
Well I have to say, I also started with Adobe....way way back and then went to Media 100 and Avid and then FCP and FCPX. We had always had a legit copy of Photoshop and AfterEffects in the shop. But when they went subscription I stopped upgrading their software What I have was fine for what I needed mostly. Far too many people I know have had issues with constant upgrades throwing their premiere system off . I now feel somewhat the same about Apple and FCPX which does not like my hardware and as a result I tried DaVinci Resolve and LOVE IT! Last week I bought a DeckLink mini monitor 4k card to feed the client monitor, simply excellent. There are so many fine tutorials for this system and great support and community.So now like you I am gong to make the transition to Fusion. I too hope they stick with it!
 
I 1st bought Adobe Premiere 5 back in the late 90s.
I later bought Premiere Pro 1.5 collection then later the Creative Suite (Premiere Pro 2.0, After Effects 7, Photoshop CS2, etc)
I skipped CS3 and later bought CS4 Master Collection (Mac) and CS4 for Windows.
Then CS5 and finally CS6 Master collection and CS6 Production Premium
So I've spent a lot on Adobe over the last 20 years (plus a lot of plugins) and I've liked it.

When they went mandatory CC I decided CS6 was the end of the road for me and I'm using it as long as I can. I do not like the forced subscription and updates model.
When I get my workstations configured and working with specific hardware I like to leave them alone until I really need to change.
Do I like the Adobe company now? No.

Autodesk is doing something similar but not quite as bad. They will let current perpetual licensees buy a perpetual license as long as you buy the maintenance update plan each year. This hacks me off too because I do not NEED the latest version of 3ds Max. I'm still running v2016. And maybe by the year 2025 I might need a newer version but if I don't pay the update every year then I will be stuck with whatever the last version I paid for was. At least when you stop paying you can keep your last perpetual license, unlike Adobe who once you stop renting you can't use it anymore.
Since Adobe started this others have either jumped on board or are flirting with it. I see Red Giant, NewBlueFX, GenArts and others offering rentals but at least they still offer perpetual licenses too.

So I've been watching the forums here about NLE software so when I have to move from CS6 I can do it as painlessly as possible. It's already causing some extra hassle due to newer camera CODECS not being supported. It's even influenced my buying decisions. I bought a UX180 instead of FS5 or Z90/NX80 and partly because it's footage works natively in CS6 without transcoding.
I've purchased Vegas Pro and try to tinker with it from time to time but time is short.
Probably Resolve or Vegas will be the replacement for Adobe for me.

The love of money is the driving force behind the entire world system and though companies pretend to care about the voice of the customer it's usually (ie nearly always) all smoke.
Having said all that if Adobe would once again sell a perpetual version (even one more time) I'd once again give them my money not because I like them but because it would be best for my company and my customers.
 
KrocanX said:
What do you think about anti-Adobe mood on forums and all over the internet?
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I was one of the ones talking them down when they dumped me at CS6 and tried to force me to rent my software. Nothing new to see here. Move along. :cheesy:

Mostly I just ignore Adobe now. They aren't relevant.
 
Bruce Watson said:
I was one of the ones talking them down when they dumped me at CS6 and tried to force me to rent my software. Nothing new to see here. Move along. :cheesy:

Mostly I just ignore Adobe now. They aren't relevant.
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And that is the only thing they will listen to - money. If enough people drop them then they might reconsider their business model. But it seems the cash flow is still coming in so it's basically rent or go somewhere else.

The timing was advantageous for Adobe back when CC was young because many FCP users had recently jumped to Adobe due to FCPX. Once you get started in CC it can be hard to bail due to loss of your work.
 
I've written about this recently on my blog and in HD Video Pro. Adobe is an innovative company and Premiere and the CC Suite are excellent products. But it feels to me, as someone who has been buying editing software since FCP beta back in the late 90s that Adobe gained a ton of ground in the market when Apple dumped FCP Studio for FCP X. The Mercury engine was groundbreaking in it's day and the ability and features of Premiere were top notch. FWIW, back in the early days of AVID and FCP Studio, Premiere was a pretty unreliable product that constantly was plagued with sync issues, crashes, etc. But slowly Adobe worked at it and brought PP to a point where it was grabbing huge amounts of market share from AVID (who has been on the edge of bankruptcy for many years now) and FCP (Apple had a deliberate strategy with FCP X that, like it or not, has alienated tens of thousands of video professionals while at the same time selling hundreds of thousands, possibly even millions of licenses of FCP X worldwide).

In the past two years approximately, it seems there has been a huge backlash from editors who don't want to pay a corporation a monthly payment for the rest of their lives to access their editing software, it's that simple. Factor in that the past few versions of Premiere have been buggy, unstable and the program seems to get incrementally slower to render with each version, just look at any of the benchmark rendering test videos from reviewers doing head to head comparisons. Premiere, compared to FCP X and Resolve, is a rendering slug in most operations. It's 2019 and nobody wants to edit with software that is unstable. From my vantage point, Adobe has filled PP with bloatware, a constant stream of new features that few editors want or need to do their work. Many of us have been pleading with Adobe for over a year to STOP with the feature bloat in PP and just put out new versions that stabilize and fix bugs.

Couple these developments with the constant stream of productive and desirable product updates from BMD for Resolve and you have a perfect strategy for a new up and comer to grab huge market share from an established leader. I review Resolve 15.1 in the current issue of HD Video Pro that just hit the newsstands and I have to say, I was pretty blown away by it's capability. I've been on FCP since beta and I really like my current build of 10.4.4 but other than for sheer editing speed, the various pages in Resolve are deeper, more sophisticated and capable than anything Apple or Adobe are putting out. Fairlight Audio has amazing capability as do Fusion, Resolve Color and BMD has continually improved the editing page. Plus the fact that the free version of Resolve is REALLY good, it's not a feature crippled trial version while Studio adds some good features for a one time $299.00 is impressive.

I still think that just purely for editing, FCP X is the fastest and most efficient but for the overall package, I am tipping over to Resolve lately. You have to take the time to learn how Resolve and Fusion do things but node based workflow is an interesting and powerful way to work. As far as Premiere, it is a capable program and still has a huge audience. But I hope that the companies that are going to the subscription only model get a beat down in the market place. I dislike it, it feels too much like indentured servitude and I think the marketplace is beginning to feel the same way. For newer editors entering the field, I encourage them to learn Resolve and FCP X, and then AVID too if they are going into episodic or higher end features. But I don't recommend Premiere to anyone anymore because I have a fundamental issue with subscription models uness you work at a production company where the employer pays the subscription. Same issue with AVID and ProTools. People are paying the subscription, but begrudgingly and that may come back to bite them too.
 
There is no sign of dissatisfaction in the Adobe financial report. Adobe stockholders must be thrilled. These are amazing numbers from the Adobe 2018 fiscal report:

"Other financial highlights in fiscal year 2018 include:

• Operating income grew 31 percent and net income grew 53 percent year-over-year on a GAAP-basis; operating income grew 31 percent and net income grew
56 percent year-over-year on a non-GAAP basis.

• Adobe generated $4.03 biillion in operating cash flow during the year.

• The company repurchased 8.7 million shares during the year, returning $2.00 billion of cash to stockholders"
 
Paul F said:
There is no sign of dissatisfaction in the Adobe financial report. Adobe stockholders must be thrilled. These are amazing numbers from the Adobe 2018 fiscal report:

"Other financial highlights in fiscal year 2018 include:

• Operating income grew 31 percent and net income grew 53 percent year-over-year on a GAAP-basis; operating income grew 31 percent and net income grew
56 percent year-over-year on a non-GAAP basis.

• Adobe generated $4.03 biillion in operating cash flow during the year.

• The company repurchased 8.7 million shares during the year, returning $2.00 billion of cash to stockholders"
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Sounds like there is the answer. As long as they are making money it makes no difference what we say, other than it is good to know how some others in the field feel. But as far as Adobe listening or changing you can forget it as long as the cash flow comes.

They won't be getting any more of my money as long as they are subscription-only and really a few thousand dollars isn't even a drop in the ocean to them anyway.
It's basically ~ "Go ahead and complain all you want as we laugh all the way to the bank"
 
Avid and Lightworks still have a buy it outright price, you just lose support at the end of the year (avid) or end of the major version (lightworks). That said, Black Magic certainly is shaking things up.
 
firehawk said:
Sounds like there is the answer. As long as they are making money it makes no difference what we say, other than it is good to know how some others in the field feel. But as far as Adobe listening or changing you can forget it as long as the cash flow comes.

They won't be getting any more of my money as long as they are subscription-only and really a few thousand dollars isn't even a drop in the ocean to them anyway.
It's basically ~ "Go ahead and complain all you want as we laugh all the way to the bank"
Click to expand...

Even though Apple isn't on the subscription model, the end result for Apple was the same. There was, as you all recall, a huge wave of dissatisfaction when Apple uncermoniously dumped FCP Studio and replaced it with the first version of FCP X. Pros felt abandoned, no more tape capture, little to no OMF implementation. Here we are all of these years later and it's now clear that Apple decided to completely redefine the tool. This is why most professional editors HATE the FCP X workflow, the magnetic timeline, etc. while most new editors love it. Apple decided rather than suport a few thousand seats of paid FCP Studio users worldwide who were pros, along with what was estimated to be hundreds of thousands of cracked copies of FCP Studio, they would essentially abandon the traditional pro editors and embrace the younger generation of editors who were happy to pay $299.00 to own FCP X and who liked it's simple and iMoviePro-like workflow. From all accounts, their strategy worked brilliantly and Apple has had MUCH more financial success with FCP X than they ever did with FCP Studio, most people won't bother to use bootleg versions as $299.00 for life is pretty cheap.

I agree with what Paul says, as long as Premiere CC revenues are up, why would Adobe care? New users are obviously offsetting disgruntled pro editors who are leaving Premiere, not because of the monthly subscription fee but because of the slow rendering and instability. Most of the freelance editors I know in LA can edit on any platform, they know AVID, FCP X and Premiere Pro, although not so much with Resolve yet and most of these editors just buy a month or two of their Premiere subscription when they need it, otherwise, they are on AVID or FCP X. Adobe also is gaining a lot of new users from still photographers who already subscribe to Lightroom and Photoshop and want to dabble with video so it's easy for them to just up their monthly to the entire CC suite to play with Premiere and AE. I believe Adobe also enjoys huge revenues from After Effects, which is so popular. It's all in the CC Suite so there are a lot of other fringe Premiere users who probably use the other programs in the suite more too.

It's a shame that so many user have fallen in line for the extortion software model but that's the way it is. If I was Adobe, I wouldn't care about the disgruntled either, it's my way or the highway as long as shareholders are being pleased.
 
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The problem is that corporations all are wedded to Adobe. The way corporations decide on which software to use is to pick the market leader. If you want to do corporate work as a consultant, you have to use Adobe products.
 
I've mentioned before on here my story as well, but yes - it is (and has been) time to jump ship from Adobe. Even the latest Photoshop has been unstable for me. When I realized that I didn't need all the new stuff, I canceled my subscription and went back to CS6 for Photoshop and After Effects (which I rarely use anyway since going to NukeX). These days, I use Avid for my serious projects, and conform/grade those in Resolve. I also edit in Resolve on projects that are just quickie internet videos. Resolve will crash on my from time to time (especially if I try the Fusion page), but nowhere near as much as Adobe did. Avid has never crashed on me once in the three and half years I've used it.
 
El Director said:
Resolve will crash on my from time to time (especially if I try the Fusion page), but nowhere near as much as Adobe did.
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How much RAM do you have? I upgraded to their minimum of 16g and it made a big difference. I'm going to 24G when I get a copy of Windows Professional (Windows Home limits RAM to 16G). I'm wondering if you have more than me and are still seeing crashes.
 
Already done! Haven't used Premiere since early 2000s but now I've dumped Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign for Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher. Haven't had Flash installed in over 3 years either. Good riddance Adobe!
 
Paul F said:
How much RAM do you have? I upgraded to their minimum of 16g and it made a big difference. I'm going to 24G when I get a copy of Windows Professional (Windows Home limits RAM to 16G). I'm wondering if you have more than me and are still seeing crashes.
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I have 24 gigs RAM and a 6GB 1060 GPU. Everything works great in Resolve for me except Fusion
 
Paul F said:
How much RAM do you have? I upgraded to their minimum of 16g and it made a big difference. I'm going to 24G when I get a copy of Windows Professional (Windows Home limits RAM to 16G). I'm wondering if you have more than me and are still seeing crashes.
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Would need to verify this, but your 16GB limit seems wrong and according to this it is wrong:

https://www.groovypost.com/news/windows-10-memory-limit-2-tb/

That said I don't have a bunch of money burning a hole in my pocket to buy 32GB and try it in my laptop right now. But the laptop did say that it supports 32GB as shipped (hardware limit???).
 
dmitrizigany said:
Already done! Haven't used Premiere since early 2000s but now I've dumped Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign for Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher. Haven't had Flash installed in over 3 years either. Good riddance Adobe!
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I'm another who dumped Adobe after they moved from CS6 to CC subscription only.
Not a fan of software as a subscription so I'm not going to give them any money.
I too use Affinity, FCPX, Motion, Resolve and Fusion instead.
 
Adobe abrogated our perpetual license agreement. That license cost me over $2K counting upgrades plus the cost of learning the software. “Stop whining! If you don’t make enough money to afford the subscription, you’re obviously not a pro. Plus all that money is going to go into engineering great software and we will get ‘free’ upgrades. Win, win!” That’s what people said at the time.

Someone else on this forum made this excellent point: The upgrade cycle associated with the perpetual license provided the incentive for Adobe to strengthen their software, create features useful to users, and keep up with new codecs, etc. If they didn’t they wouldn’t get any new revenue.

So besides the fact that they pissed on our agreement, the projected improvements to the software became profit to people who don’t write software or edit video. Lose, lose.
 
Curtis Mack said:
The problem is that corporations all are wedded to Adobe. The way corporations decide on which software to use is to pick the market leader. If you want to do corporate work as a consultant, you have to use Adobe products.
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I could see where this is an issue where you collaborate on the project level (e.g. the corp wants you to use a PP Template they provide). I had that happen this year. It was just a layout so I redid it in Resolve.

Usually I will deliver a finished video or raw footage so the platform is irrelevant to the client. Are there other circumstances where a corporation insists on an editing platform?
 
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