Is HVX "real" HD?

filmtovideo

filmtovideo

Well-known member
Somebody told me that the HVX200 is a " compromise" HD because it's
compressed into an MPEG signal? Is it MPEG and is that different from
" high-end" HD? What is MPEG? (I know what the acronym means but I
don't fully understand all the compression info..) What's the meaning of
the different MPEG designations? I think that there's MPEG-2 and MPEG-4
and I don't know what else.

Thanks!
 
69250266_8c1f5c979c.jpg


The HVX shoot in DVCPro HD, which is a professional HD codec that the VARICAM uses.
 
OH MY GOD!! I need a poster of that for my edit bay!
Do people actually read this forum, errrrrrrr what?
 
HVX uses the pro-level DVCPRO-HD codec. You are thinking of the other consumer/prosumer cameras in the sub $10k range (from Sony, Canon, and JVC). Most of them shoot using HDV, which is a MPEG format. The compression on HDV, makes the format less professional than the DVCPRO-HD format that the HVX uses. The main benefit of HDV is the fact that it seems to be the cheapest entry into HD. You can record onto standard Mini DV tapes which is ideal for a lot of consumers.

All of these formats (HDV and DVCPRO-HD) are "true-HD" formats. HD has to do with resolution, not the codec you shoot it in. Most people would say that DVCPRO-HD is a more professional format than HDV. But they are both "true HD".
 
Yes it is, DVCPRO is a 1280 by 1080 with rectangular pixels while HDV is 1440 x 1080 with square pixels.
 
1080 HDV is rectangular pixels as well. It uses a 1.33:1 anamorphic ratio. The only "square pixel" HD recording format right now is 720p HDV.
 
Mack Fisher said:
The main benefit is that HDV is sharper than DVCPROHD. yes its cheap but its not garbage.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it seems to pros the slight gains don't work. Did you see the recent article that Tim Curivan posted? They were using a Cine Alta (one of the HD big boys) and wanted a smaller camera for PoV stuff. They had previously been using the DVX and were interested in trying some of the HDV cameras. After testing however (the Sony Z1 I believe), they decided that the motion compression of HDV wasn't worth it and that they'd rather stick to plain old SD miniDV footage form the DVX100. When the HVX200 came out, they put it through the runs and found that it worked sell enough with the CineAlta not only to be used for PoV stuff but also for other footage like inside cars, or handheld stuff, ect. Not once in the article to the even mention the resolution in a negative way. The bottom line is that the slight extra bit of horizontal resolution HDV is capible of (which, the camers have trouble delivering anyway), is pretty neglible compared to the other compromises.

Still, this "true HD" stuff is kind of getting tedious. If it's bigger than SD, it's HD.
 
MrPolarBare said:
HVX uses the pro-level DVCPRO-HD codec. You are thinking of the other consumer/prosumer cameras in the sub $10k range (from Sony, Canon, and JVC). Most of them shoot using HDV, which is a MPEG format. The compression on HDV, makes the format less professional than the DVCPRO-HD format that the HVX uses. The main benefit of HDV is the fact that it seems to be the cheapest entry into HD. You can record onto standard Mini DV tapes which is ideal for a lot of consumers.
Click to expand...

Factor in the HDV Canons with HD - SDI at sub $10k and I dont think you can call these cameras "less professional"

MrPolarBare said:
All of these formats (HDV and DVCPRO-HD) are "true-HD" formats. HD has to do with resolution, not the codec you shoot it in. Most people would say that DVCPRO-HD is a more professional format than HDV. But they are both "true HD".
Click to expand...

Cheers to that. You did mention the mini dv more convenient for a lot of consumers, I would say also for pros on long shoots in inaccesible areas, wedding videographers, eng or basically any pro application were off loads or direct capture are difficult.
 
The "PAL" version of DVCPROHD is 1440*1080 with chroma 720*1080

that beats both

HDCAM 1440*1080 chroma 480*1080
HDV 1440*1080 chroma 720*540

Does that mean that every F900 owner would trade their camea agaisnt a PAL HVX200? No because specs dont mean S*** only whats the final image is.

Every Capture-Distrubiution line has a bottleneck. And the bottle neck is what every buyer should look at. What does color reproduction have for value when the target audience only have black and white tv sets? Or UltraHD resolution when every TV thats gonna watch it only has interlace SD tvs?
 
I recently used a JVC that saved files directly to a hardrive with a .mod extension. How does this compare? I tried changing the extension to .mpg or .m2v so that premiere and after effects would read it, but the audio was lost when I rendered out of there.
 
mcgeedigital said:
69250266_8c1f5c979c.jpg


The HVX shoot in DVCPro HD, which is a professional HD codec that the VARICAM uses.
Click to expand...

Thank, thank you, thank you for enduring what I know you've heard asked
before. I researched but couldn't find FOR SURE what I asked, or was too dumb
to know it if I saw it.

Just to be clear, is DVCPro HD the codec for the HVX200 when P2 cards are
used? No MPEG? I know some of you may feel I need to be hit over the head
to get it, so I apologize for my denseness and thank you.
 
ncje said:
Factor in the HDV Canons with HD - SDI at sub $10k and I dont think you can call these cameras "less professional"
Click to expand...
If you reread my comment you'll notice I never once said that the cameras were less professional. I said the HDV format is less professional. (just wanted to make sure you knew what I was saying) :)
 
I think the poster was refering to Uncompressed HD as "True HD" and as a matter of fact all the formats discussed in this thread are COMPRESSED HD. So if when you say "True HD" you mean UNCOMPRESSED HD, you are correct neither DVCPROHD or HDV are "True HD" formats. That being said you will need a 100k camera to capture "TRUE HD" or UNCOMPRESSED HD as of today.

The HDV codec is equivalent DV 25mbs
DVCPro100 or DVCproHD is about 2/3 (100mbs) the size of Uncompressed 1:1 standard def (175mbs)
Uncompressed HD is approximately 7 to 12 times the size of uncompressed 1:1 SD (depends on frame rate among other things)
Big difference.

Grant
 
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