Is HPX 170 Native 16:9?

H

Hugh DiMauro

Well-known member
Hello everybody!

It's been awhile since I've signed on and forgive me if this question has already been answered. Is the Panasonic AG HPX170 true native 16:9? I got my hands on an owner's manual and noticed that the camera offers three shooting modes: 4 x3, letterbox and squeeze, just like the DVX 100b which, I've come to understand, is not true native 16:9. Just to admit my ignorance, I always thought a "true" 16:9 camera had a ccd shaped like a 16:9 rectangle and not a 4:3 square. Am I getting this or am I all wet here?

Thanks for your help.

Hugh
 
The Varicam doesn't do standard-def, it's all 16x9 all the time.

The HPX170 can do HD (always 16x9) or standard-def (in either 4x3 or 16x9). 16x9 uses the whole chip, 4x3 uses a center extraction (chopping off the sides).
 
AHHH! That's what I wanted to know, then. The chip is always 16 x 9 so I will never get any picture degradation in 16 x 9 standard or hi def. However, this leads me to another question: What is letterbox on the HPX? The 4 x 3 center portion with black bars? And why "squeeze" for 16 x 9? I thought squeezing degrades the resolution. Also, if the chip is 16 x 9 and I want to shoot in 16 x 9 SD or HD shouldn't the image just fill the viewfibder/flipout screen in 16 x 9? I hope I'm not sounding daft.

What I'm getting at is: Shouldn't the menu only offer 4 x 3 (filet mignon center cut 16 x 9 chip) and the full 16 x 9 surface? What's with the squeeze and black bar stuff? I'm the kind of guy who just HAS to know.
 
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Yes, it's the center 4:3 extraction, with black bars laid over it.

And I've been arguing with them for about five years now to quit calling it "squeeze", but ... they like that term. Even though it's misleading, and always has been. Even back in the days of the DVX100A, it was never "squeezed", at best it could be termed "stretched".

I've asked them to change their naming convention from "normal" and "squeeze" to "4x3" and "widescreen."

The results of that lobbying effort are that they now call it "side crop" and "squeeze". Sigh.

What I'm getting at is: Shouldn't the menu only offer 4 x 3 (filet mignon center cut 16 x 9 chip) and the full 16 x 9 surface? What's with the squeeze and black bar stuff? I'm the kind of guy who just HAS to know.
Click to expand...
Standard-def cable TV broadcasting in the USA is done at 4x3. If you want a widescreen image for cable broadcast, you're going to have to give them a 4x3 image with black bars on it. "letterbox" mode does that for you.
 
Thanks for your patience, Mr. Green. The owner's manual just confounds me with it's borderline twisted wording (I'm sure in part due to the Japanese/English conversion. Thank you, Mr. Matsushida). I want to bang my head against the wall when I read that section. Okay then, tell me if I have this correct:

1) 4 x 3: Center square of native 16 x 9 shaped CCD. (Called "side crop")
2) Letterbox: S/A above but with black bars to satisfy widescreen standard def cable stations.
3) 16 x 9: The full chip (They call it squeeze thus making you want to squeeze their skulls).
4) Do the first two degrade the picture at all because of image manipulation different than the chip's shape?

How'd I do?

By the way: My camera and your books arrive tomorrow. I still love my DVX and plan to shoot standard def with both until I get a beefier editing system. I don't think my Core 2 Quad, 64 bit Windows Vista, 6 gigs of ram system with four internal 500 gig SATAs will do the trick, huh?
 
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1 - correct
2 - it is the same as 1, but with black bars. This doesn't "satisfy widescreen SD cable stations", because there aren't any. Instead, this satisfies the producer who wants a widescreen look, but is going to be broadcast on a 4:3 cable station.
3 - correct
4 - no

And your computer sounds like extreme overkill for SD and for HD. The HPX170's HD is extremely edit-friendly.
 
I can't believe it! I've read many articles and info about the HPX170, because I'm planing to buy one, but until now I cant find definitive info about the camera producing video at 1920x1080 resolution!
The article 'What do i need to Edit HD?' by Jarred Land says 'Codec: DVCPRO-HD 1080/60i - Resolution 1280x1080' so this is what the HPX170 produces? I know the CCD's are 16:9 shapped, so no 1920x1080?!
Dos the 'squeeze' function is the same as in the DVX100A, with the interpolation?
Please help! So I can finally end my research and get a HPX170!
 
im not trying to second-guess your logic. im just curious as to why this is such a big question.

what is it that youre doing that makes this a possible deal-breaker?
 
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Cesar_Luna said:
I can't believe it! I've read many articles and info about the HPX170, because I'm planing to buy one, but until now I cant find definitive info about the camera producing video at 1920x1080 resolution!
The article 'What do i need to Edit HD?' by Jarred Land says 'Codec: DVCPRO-HD 1080/60i - Resolution 1280x1080' so this is what the HPX170 produces? I know the CCD's are 16:9 shapped, so no 1920x1080?!
Dos the 'squeeze' function is the same as in the DVX100A, with the interpolation?
Please help! So I can finally end my research and get a HPX170!
Click to expand...

The camera does all of its image acquisition and processing in 1920x1080. When recording in DVCPro HD, it is downsampled to 1280x1080 or 960x720 (these are the only dimensions that the DVCPro HD format records in). Most NLE apps are able to handle the DVCPro footage properly in 1920x1080 or 1280x720 projects.
 
Thanks for responding to my post. I'm sorry, but I don't understand that much about 100% digital video recording. I just wanted to buy a camera that recorded 16:9, 1920x1080 digital video, download that material to my computer and edit it on premiere, then create a blu-ray disc. First I was inetersted in the HMC150, which produces 1920x1080 video, but with a different codec and lower bit rate, right? But then I found out about the HPX170, and it sounded more interesting with the VFR and all the other benefits. But I didn't pay much attention in the recording format, and the dimensions.
 
Also, I don't have a heavy editing equipment, so I can't handle uncompressed video outputed through HD-SDI from the HPX170. So, is the HMC150 a better option for me? Can I obtain 16:9 - 1920x1080 material on the SD card, download it directly to my computer, and do the editing, and finally produce a blu-ray disc (preferibly) or a dvd?
Thanks very much for the help!
 
Cesar_Luna said:
Also, I don't have a heavy editing equipment, so I can't handle uncompressed video outputed through HD-SDI from the HPX170. So, is the HMC150 a better option for me? Can I obtain 16:9 - 1920x1080 material on the SD card, download it directly to my computer, and do the editing, and finally produce a blu-ray disc (preferibly) or a dvd?
Thanks very much for the help!
Click to expand...

If you're editing in premiere, you can edit AVCHD files natively. Though, it takes a beefy machine. Personally, I'd suggest transcoding to a more "edit-friendly" format.

Keep in mind, there are a lot more things to consider when weighing the differences between the HMC-150 and the HPX-170 beyond just the codecs (although that is huge). You also have to consider whether you want the ability to do intervelometer recording, whether you prefer p2 workflow vs. AVCCAM, etc.

Weigh the pros and cons and decide which one is right for you.
 
Ok, I'll try to explain more about my situation. I have a DVX100A, and I use it to shoot instructional videos, conferences, weddings and different events. I transfer the footage via firewire to my pc, i do a very basic editing, and I burn the final project in DVD. BUT, like many others I'm an amateur movie maker in my free time, I make short films and docs, and send them to small festival in my native contry México. And from a while now, I have wanted to upgrade my camera. Years ago, I planned to get a HDV camera, but it wasn't possible because of financial issues. So now, I'm in the position of getting a camera. Like I said, I'm not very familiar with P2 HD or AVCCAM workflows. So I liked the HMC150, because of the tapeless format, and the 100% digital sd card format. But then I found out about the HPX170, and I said wow, look at all those features!

But It all basically reduces to this:
I want a camera that allows me to keep shooting what I'm used to. Now, some people want their recording in FullHD, in blu-ray. Other just want a regular DVD.

As for me, I'm interested in the 16:9, 1920x1080 footage, for my personal narrative projects.

KMR and ikander, please, just help me to respond these questions:

1.- Can I obtain 16:9, 1920x1080 footage from the HMC150, IN the SD/SDHC card?
2.- Can I transfer this footage directly to my PC without it being downsampled to 1280x1080 or 960x720?
3.- My computer specs are: core 2 duo 2.66GHz, 6GB RAM, 500GB HHD, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650, display 1920x1080. Can my pc handle 1920x1080 avchd encoded video footage?

Thanks very much for your patience!
 
i thought you were trying to meet some ultra-strict broadcast standard or something.

sounds to me that you are getting blinded by tech-speak and marketing horsecrap

both cameras produce 16:9 footage at 720 or 1080 resolution. both can be downloaded to most modern computers, edited and made into blu-ray discs. the process of transferring to your computer (via firewire or card reader or whatever) is simply moving data and has no effect on the resolution or format.

the hpx170 uses a more robust (and more efficient) codec and shoots to more expensive (and more reliable) P2 cards.

if you can afford it, get the hpx170

as a side note. dvcprHD is a VERY easy to work with format. i have a 7+ year old 1.0ghz mac powerbook G4 that does cuts+dissolve edits in it with no problem.
 
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so how do i get 16:9, 1920x1080 footage from the hpx170 directly to my pc? do i need a hd-sdi port in my computer, or something? i don't even knew of the hd-sdi port! like i said i'm NEW in the 100% digital workflow.

wgzn, sorry for not being more specific about what i do!

thanks!
 
i forgot, it is possible to get the 1920x1080 footage from the hpx170 via firewire?
or should i be considering upgrading my pc also, with heavy raid systems? (of course, in case i get the hpx170)
 
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