Is Convergent-Design still in business?
- Thread starter dbwolfe
- Start date
NorBro
Major Contributor
Highly unlikely as far as new products - but that's just my personal opinion without knowing anything about them or their situation.
[You can technically be "in business" legally and/or by providing support to former customers, but may have no plans to release new products.]
I wish for them to be in business and make new products.
[You can technically be "in business" legally and/or by providing support to former customers, but may have no plans to release new products.]
I wish for them to be in business and make new products.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Although obvious...maybe should add that it's almost impossible to compete with a $499 4K Ninja V. What's the point, really.
IMO, Atomos folded CD and Video Devices at the same time almost how Blackmagic folded them until they dropped their prices drastically around 2016-2017.
[If anyone remembers, the Shogun Inferno used to cost $1,999 and was down to $999 within a year after its release IIRC.]
IMO, Atomos folded CD and Video Devices at the same time almost how Blackmagic folded them until they dropped their prices drastically around 2016-2017.
[If anyone remembers, the Shogun Inferno used to cost $1,999 and was down to $999 within a year after its release IIRC.]
Adaptation is the key to survival ... and CD has not done so.
The Odyssey Q+ was my first recorder ... loved it ... better build quality ... yada yada ...
Been using a Video Devices PIX-E5 and PIX-LR for years ... yah I can pick them ...
Cost, innovation, and specs ... like the contrast ratio on the Shogun 7 ... I am now in
the process of moving from the Video Devices as it is a great 4K 30p device .... with HDMI
SDI limited to HD ....
Honestly the device to buy is one that the manufacturer has a future ... and looks like Atomos
will be the last man standing in this market.
The Odyssey Q+ was my first recorder ... loved it ... better build quality ... yada yada ...
Been using a Video Devices PIX-E5 and PIX-LR for years ... yah I can pick them ...
Cost, innovation, and specs ... like the contrast ratio on the Shogun 7 ... I am now in
the process of moving from the Video Devices as it is a great 4K 30p device .... with HDMI
SDI limited to HD ....
Honestly the device to buy is one that the manufacturer has a future ... and looks like Atomos
will be the last man standing in this market.
John Brawley
Well-known member
I would expect CD is still going. They're kind a small "family" business. Have you tried emailing them ?
I love the 7Q, and 7Q+ and I don't think any of the current panels / monitors are as good for critical colour and lighting work. They are "only" 1920 OLED's but they look great and can be calibrated and beat the pants off everything else for accuracy of anything short of the desktop monitors.
OLED's aren't very hip in the field though, but I still prefer them.
JB
I love the 7Q, and 7Q+ and I don't think any of the current panels / monitors are as good for critical colour and lighting work. They are "only" 1920 OLED's but they look great and can be calibrated and beat the pants off everything else for accuracy of anything short of the desktop monitors.
OLED's aren't very hip in the field though, but I still prefer them.
JB
Mitch Gross
Veteran
While I am no longer with the company I can tell you that they are still in operation. Development of the Odyssey monitor/recorders has ended but CD still services them. They have been in production for a product for another industry and I believe are developing something else for the video production business.
Grug
Veteran
Unfortunately I was largely spoilt (feature-wise) by owning a couple of 7Qs. Now I get angry at all the other monitor/recorders that won't capture 4:4:4, won't give you customisable false colour (a huge deal), won't give you the option to decide whether your exposure metering is applied before or after the LUT you're using for monitoring.
The 7Q+ does basically everything I'd want a monitor to do, it's only limitation is that great OLED screen. Which while able to be calibrated and excellent for colour - suffered for critical focus by being just 720p and impossible to view in daylight conditions (I've just moved to the Shogun 7 for on-camera monitoring, and the 3000 nit setting makes it genuinely viewable in bright, direct, Australian sunlight - which is HUGE boon.
The lack of control the Shogun 7 offers over the features it has built-in though, is a real pain in the arse.
The 7Q+ does basically everything I'd want a monitor to do, it's only limitation is that great OLED screen. Which while able to be calibrated and excellent for colour - suffered for critical focus by being just 720p and impossible to view in daylight conditions (I've just moved to the Shogun 7 for on-camera monitoring, and the 3000 nit setting makes it genuinely viewable in bright, direct, Australian sunlight - which is HUGE boon.
The lack of control the Shogun 7 offers over the features it has built-in though, is a real pain in the arse.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
You're welcome.
I'm not an engineer so can't take credit or the programming, but I'm quite proud to have been one of the principals on the team that designed what features and functionality would go into the Odyssey. There are so many little design choices that improve functionality for real world users in the Odyssey. I basically took everything I found wanting in other devices and tried to inject solutions in the Odyssey. There were tons more on our list that never made it in, but we sure got a lot of them.
Did you ever use the spot meter?
Grug
Veteran
You're welcome.
I'm not an engineer so can't take credit or the programming, but I'm quite proud to have been one of the principals on the team that designed what features and functionality would go into the Odyssey. There are so many little design choices that improve functionality for real world users in the Odyssey. I basically took everything I found wanting in other devices and tried to inject solutions in the Odyssey. There were tons more on our list that never made it in, but we sure got a lot of them.
Did you ever use the spot meter?
Who knew that having an actual DP's input on your product's design, would help you to include features that actual DPs need?! (what a concept!)
It's so shockingly rare for manufacturers to actually "get it". Arri get it most of the time (not with their current baseplates/camera cages though), Bright Tangerine have got it with their current baseplates/camera cages, Sony have mostly got it with the Venice (1-8 stops of ND, 5-second boot time), Blackmagic get it with their menu UIs, Convergent Design got it with metering features they implemented.
I used the spot meter several times, made calibrating my lightmeter to a camera super simple!
So thanks
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
I didn't get the memo on that. Other than the OLED panels being phased out, did we decide they are unhip at some point...?! I'm very content with my Sony A250.
John Brawley
Well-known member
OLEDS have big problems with burn in.
So they have tended to not be the style of monitor that get used in the field. I mean it's nearly impossible to get a 5 or 7inch OLED for on camera monitoring anymore. 3 or 4 years ago it was all OLED.
JB
G
Guest
Guest
TVlogic still sells an OLED 5.5” that has nice colour supposedly. I intend to pick one up when work starts going again. And they have a brighter LCD version of that same 5.5” model, which is bright and has better viewing angle. I suppose OLED for DP and LCD for AC?
The TVlogic’s have also come way down in price, due to competition i assume. They are $499 i believe.
TVlogic tends to be more reliable at the very least, has professional i/o (2x HD-SDI and 2x HDMI) and tends to have more accurate colour. Worth a look. The smallHD focus screens have been known to crack easily.
http://www.tvlogic.tv/new/M_Spec.asp?sidx=101
The TVlogic’s have also come way down in price, due to competition i assume. They are $499 i believe.
TVlogic tends to be more reliable at the very least, has professional i/o (2x HD-SDI and 2x HDMI) and tends to have more accurate colour. Worth a look. The smallHD focus screens have been known to crack easily.
http://www.tvlogic.tv/new/M_Spec.asp?sidx=101
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Run&Gun
Veteran
Six out of my nine monitors are OLED. A Sony 17" OLED, two smallHD DP7Pro OLED's(one being the one I bought from you, Charles) and three Focus 5 OLED's. Plus two of my EVF's are OLED. Knock on wood, I only have one that has started showing burn-in. My oldest DP7 started exhibiting burn-in from the on-screen info from my F55 a few months ago. I bought that camera back in 2015 and the monitor is even older than that. So I guess that's not too bad...
SmallHD is still selling 5" & 7" on-cam OLED's.
G
Guest
Guest
I want to like SmallHD. I actually just bought a Cine 7 because they are including Red Control for free right now, and it really does solve two monitor needs in one for me.
I need:
- touch control for the red body, as not all people are familiar with the sidekick.
- a 7" bright monitor that can mount anywhere
- to spend less than $3000
Any other solution involved being restricted in someway. So, as much as I wanted to go a different route, SmallHD is currently the only all in one solution. Makes a great framing device. When I bought it, it had a purple glow on the left side that the Vitec guy said would "hopefully go away." So, I may have to just return it, and get something else.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I think the knock on OLEDs is that they can never be made into high NIT monitors. Technology may evolve, but currently they can get up to about 700 NITs max, so not HDR compliant and only marginally bright daylight viewable. But they still have the best blacks and the widest color gamut. The Odyssey was and still is the lowest cost P3-compliant monitor in the industry. You can actually set it from REC709 to P3 in the monitor settings, something I had cause to do in the field exactly once. It was gorgeous.
G
Guest
Guest
SmallHD claims the Cine 7 is 100% of DCI-P3, which I am not sure what they mean exactly. Going to be testing that out soon. Still can't believe the Vitec staff convinced me to pay for and walk out of their store with a purple glow on the monitor.
^that isn’t an illusion. It is a purple glow coming out the side.
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Mitch Gross
Veteran
My favorite functionality on the Odyssey remains the LUT routing system. Five outputs that could see the LUTs: the OLED screen, HDMI Out, SDI 1 Out, SDI 2 Out and the Odyssey monitoring tools. Each one separately addressable as to viewing the LUT or the original signal. BOY OH BOY was this a subject of hours & hours of discussion. When I arrived at CD it was simply LUT on/off for everything, which is what happens on most devices. I had to explain why one might want to have different signals for each output path. Here was my common use case example, one of many permutations.
Shooting in LOG or RAW.
- OLED panel: DP wants to see an image with LUT but also wants waveform on screen that shows original signal so they know how much exposure range is in the actual recording (Is that window actually clipping or can I recover it in post?). At the tap of the LUT button they can toggle the image between LUT & LOG without disturbing the other outputs.
- SDI 1: DP needs a set monitor showing exact same as OLED so they can adjust lighting on set, often away from camera. When toggling LUT/LOG on Odyssey this image switches too.
- SDI 2: DIT/Engineer wants no LUT original LOG signal without the waveform or anything else on the screen. Or maybe the AC wants a clean image for pulling focus.
- HDMI: Wireless transmitter of image with LUT applied but with no waveform to go to the director.
To do the above setup before the Odyssey would require a small cart of engineering equipment, a mess of cabling and added latency between the boxes of several frames. Plus it would be a pain to set up each day, require a person to babysit it and cost a hefty load of $$$. Pretty much every DIT I know bought an Odyssey just for this sigal routing alone. Until we did it absolutely no one thought to make LUT monitoring so easily controllable. Ever try to switch the LUT on/off on an FS7? What a freakin' nightmare.
The best thing about working with really good engineers is to simply present them with a problem. Tell them what you struggle with and what your pain point is. Then let them come up with ideas for solutions. Sometimes what you might think is complex is actually easy for them to solve, or vice versa. Sometimes they'll come at a problem in a unique way and suggest a solution that would never occur to you. When I asked for a spot meter I never thought to ask for individual RGB readouts with it. But that helps enormously when you have highlights that clip a channel. That's just one of many examples.
Shooting in LOG or RAW.
- OLED panel: DP wants to see an image with LUT but also wants waveform on screen that shows original signal so they know how much exposure range is in the actual recording (Is that window actually clipping or can I recover it in post?). At the tap of the LUT button they can toggle the image between LUT & LOG without disturbing the other outputs.
- SDI 1: DP needs a set monitor showing exact same as OLED so they can adjust lighting on set, often away from camera. When toggling LUT/LOG on Odyssey this image switches too.
- SDI 2: DIT/Engineer wants no LUT original LOG signal without the waveform or anything else on the screen. Or maybe the AC wants a clean image for pulling focus.
- HDMI: Wireless transmitter of image with LUT applied but with no waveform to go to the director.
To do the above setup before the Odyssey would require a small cart of engineering equipment, a mess of cabling and added latency between the boxes of several frames. Plus it would be a pain to set up each day, require a person to babysit it and cost a hefty load of $$$. Pretty much every DIT I know bought an Odyssey just for this sigal routing alone. Until we did it absolutely no one thought to make LUT monitoring so easily controllable. Ever try to switch the LUT on/off on an FS7? What a freakin' nightmare.
The best thing about working with really good engineers is to simply present them with a problem. Tell them what you struggle with and what your pain point is. Then let them come up with ideas for solutions. Sometimes what you might think is complex is actually easy for them to solve, or vice versa. Sometimes they'll come at a problem in a unique way and suggest a solution that would never occur to you. When I asked for a spot meter I never thought to ask for individual RGB readouts with it. But that helps enormously when you have highlights that clip a channel. That's just one of many examples.
G
Guest
Guest
So good, Mitch. Yeah, that is more what one would like to see more of in monitors.