Is color grading really necessary on making a good movie?

I should have been more explicit apparently. I meant thoughtful color grading. Magic Bullet Colorista and Looks can both help someone perform high quality color grading. Sometimes even a preset look can improve a story. Not knowing how to use ANY tool is always a problem.
 
Chris Adler said:
I should have been more explicit apparently. I meant thoughtful color grading. Magic Bullet Colorista and Looks can both help someone perform high quality color grading. Sometimes even a preset look can improve a story. Not knowing how to use ANY tool is always a problem.
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Yah I figured we were on the same page. Just clarified for you ;) Sorry if I sounded argumentative, wasn't meant to be.
 
IronPony,

Just for fun. Pick a movie you like that has a definite graded look to it, and then try and duplicate this with your own camera. You will likely have to do some grading in post to get close to the same look. Once you're done, compare your original footage from the camera, the footage you graded, and the original footage from the movie you like. This should give you some insight as to why the finished look of your film is important, and why grading can be a key part of your process.
 
Okay thanks. What do you mean, illegal colors though? I do not understand.


I also had no idea what colors to make it in pre, and just shot it like the camera could do it. I am looking for a colorist but not much luck finding one. One thing I have tried myself is adding blue in color balance. This gives everything a nice hint of blue. Not a lot, just subtle. Is there anything else I could be doing? I also tried making street sodium lights more gold, rather than orange, but what else could I be doing? There is one scene where I think it looks good as is. It was shot under tungsten light and comes out yellow, but I think the yellowness adds to the scariness, so I kept it. I tried making it all white, and the creepy vibe, just wasn't as effective in my opinion. I was thinking of leaving that scene completely as is, unless there is something I really should be doing?
 
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ironpony said:
Okay thanks. What do you mean, illegal colors though? I do not understand.


I also had no idea what colors to make it in pre, and just shot it like the camera could do it. I am looking for a colorist but not much luck finding one. One thing I have tried myself is adding blue in color balance. This gives everything a nice hint of blue. Not a lot, just subtle. Is there anything else I could be doing? I also tried making street sodium lights more gold, rather than orange, but what else could I be doing? There is one scene where I think it looks good as is. It was shot under tungsten light and comes out yellow, but I think the yellowness adds to the scariness, so I kept it. I tried making it all white, and the creepy vibe, just wasn't as effective in my opinion. I was thinking of leaving that scene completely as is, unless there is something I really should be doing?
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You should definitely read the book other members linked. It will help you a lot.

What software are you using to color?
 
I am using After Effects. I could get the book, it's just for the current project, I don't know if the book will get in, in time. Plus if I invest in a book I want to get the best one as well. Does that book give examples of several movies, to help out?

I also looked at that example of illegal colors, and I'm sorry but, I still have no idea what they are talking about. The colors in the pictures are just not good, and I should stay away from basically?
 
You might start by reading up on, or taking a course or tutorial about reading waveform monitors and vector scopes, as these are the tools used for measuring your video for color correction.
 
ironpony said:
I am using After Effects. I could get the book, it's just for the current project, I don't know if the book will get in, in time. Plus if I invest in a book I want to get the best one as well. Does that book give examples of several movies, to help out?

I also looked at that example of illegal colors, and I'm sorry but, I still have no idea what they are talking about. The colors in the pictures are just not good, and I should stay away from basically?
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If you are using After Effects CS5 or newer, I would highly, highly recommend using the effect SA Color Finesse, which After Effects purchased from Synthetic Aperture.

Use only the simple interface; I find the full interface, which opens in a fullscreen window, to be cumbersome and typically unnecessary for what I do, but YMMV.

In the simple interface, there are wheels for tinting the image, curves for (very, very aggressively) adjusting the image's RGB, and HSL and RGB sliders at the bottom, which are the most useful and subtle tools, in my opinion.

Read up a little bit on the differences between HSL and RGB. Most of the color correction work you will do will be in adjusting tonal range - getting your shadows, mids, and highs right. The HSL sliders allow you to tweak those with precision. Then, you can play with the RGB sliders to balance colors in the image - maybe something is too red or too yellow, etc. - and you can experiment with the wheels and curves to dial in a specific look. (Careful with those tools, though, as they are pretty aggressive.)

You can apply more of the Color Finesse effects ad infinitum. I like to dedicate one to luma contrast, one to saturation, and one to color balance, for example, renaming them in the layer's Effects window.

The only downside to this is the lack of a histogram or waveform monitor in the simple interface. Opening the expanded interface fixes this, but, I still think it's really clunky compared to a professional software's UI - Speedgrade, Resolve, Color, etc.
 
ironpony said:
... As far as objects being a distracting color, a lot of the locations I plan to use in the future, will not let me for example, take down curtains that are a bad color and put up my own. Or something like that. I have to go with the colors of the location that is given on my budget. Does the book talk about how to deal with being forced to use colored objects that are out of my control?
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Yes, the Van Hurkman book does cover this. You can't work miracles, but you can do more than you might think. And the larger point of my recommending this book is so that you'll learn what's possible.

ironpony said:
Also no one else has ever said to me that certain colors of objects, can be distracting in a movie. Is this something most people actually notice, or only a few people who are really paying attention to it?
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The reason for that is obvious once you think about it. The reason people aren't distracted by certain colors and brightnesses of objects in commercial movies is that they've been taken care of in post -- before the public gets to see it. The point of much secondary color correction work is to eliminate or at least reduce these kinds of things to the point that viewers don't see them -- all they see is what the director wanted them to see -- all they see are the things that add to the story and push the narrative along. The very fact that you aren't hearing about it tells you how effective the techniques are.

A lot of science has been done to discover where people will look first in any given painting, photograph, or scene in a movie, and where they'll look next. If you want to go in depth on stuff like this you might want to consider a book like Block's The Visual Story. An excellent read that will give you many "ah ha" moments as you start to understand why certain compositions work better then others, why certain color combinations work better than others, etc. and of course -- how to use these tools to provoke the desired response in the viewer. In other words, how to use the tools of light and shadow, color and contrast, etc. to tell a story.

I highly recommend the Van Hurkman book for your immediate need, and the Block book for your future endeavors in film making. Both will save you untold time and expense if you learn what they've got to teach.
 
I mean no one has ever said anything on my and my friends projects when we ask people we know for feedback. Not pro movies. Thanks for the book recommendations. I'll check them out. I also watched tutorial on how to recolor an object, using After Effects, and have tried it numerous times. But whenever I try it, it does not recolor the object, but recolors the whole picture. In the tutorial, it just showed the one object being colored, instantly. So I must be doing something wrong. Still looking for a colorist, but if I cannot find one in time, I can call the short finished with possible distracting objects in the background. As for future projects, I'll check out the books. I can apply their terms to After Effects though right, since I don't have magic bullet?
 
ironpony said:
I mean no one has ever said anything on my and my friends projects when we ask people we know for feedback. Not pro movies. Thanks for the book recommendations. I'll check them out. I also watched tutorial on how to recolor an object, using After Effects, and have tried it numerous times. But whenever I try it, it does not recolor the object, but recolors the whole picture. In the tutorial, it just showed the one object being colored, instantly. So I must be doing something wrong. Still looking for a colorist, but if I cannot find one in time, I can call the short finished with possible distracting objects in the background. As for future projects, I'll check out the books. I can apply their terms to After Effects though right, since I don't have magic bullet?
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There is obviously no law or mandate or film rule that states that you must CC videos, it can just help a lot in getting the look that you want. If your film has a good story, thats what really matters. Period. CC and all the other steps in production and post are marginal returns on investment compared to story, script and acting. Maybe for your next film you will be better prepared regarding color design and grading/correction. We are all learning at every level of the profession. Tell yourself that on the next you will explore and try to learn sound, and the next color, etc. Pretty soon you'll be knowledgable in many facets of filmmaking.

And a suggestion for dedicated color correction software is Black Magic's Davinci Resolve. The lite version is free and everything you need for most HD projects. It is a beast, and one of the best grading softwares out there.
 
Egg Born Son said:
If one has the means and the will to see it through, why not do a feature? A glorious failure is a massive learning experience. A moderate success a great achievement. If I could find the time, wrangle the people and line up the resources I'd happily jump into a doomed feature project.

ironpony asks a lot of questions. a lot of questions and whether he takes the advice or flies in the face of it doesn't matter if people are happy to keep answering and guiding him. When something doesn't work he'll know why because someone told him, and learn the lesson later. He has a lot to learn and like all of us sometimes misunderstands the things he reads and gets the wrong end of the stick. But the fact he asks questions demonstrates a commitment to improvement and an acknowledgement of the journey ahead of him. I doubt he'll get distribution for a first feature but I've lost count of the number of times members have surprised me after following their threads. And there's nothing wrong with rampant optimism.
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i agree with you Egg Born Son. My apologies for the negative post Ironpony - some great advice here.
 
Oh thanks, no problem I get a little negative in this business too sometimes. It's hard to know what looks good in color grading. I like the looks of older movies like The Good the Bad and the Ugly, and Witness, but also like newer looks as well. And with modern audiences, it's difficult to know what color is a winner, or is it just simply up to you, and all good looks, look good to everyone?
 
ironpony said:
Oh thanks, no problem I get a little negative in this business too sometimes. It's hard to know what looks good in color grading. I like the looks of older movies like The Good the Bad and the Ugly, and Witness, but also like newer looks as well. And with modern audiences, it's difficult to know what color is a winner, or is it just simply up to you, and all good looks, look good to everyone?
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The winning look is the one that best helps the story. Same concept as selecting lenses... Would you use a wide angle fisheye close-up for a beauty shot of the lead actress? Probably not. Would you color a romantic comedy green/blue like the Matrix? Probably not.

WHMS4.jpg

(Excuse the crappy grade, I'm not at a computer that has any real CC software of any kind)
 
Yep I think for mine the look of Witness (1985), would be good. But witness is colored brown and if I add blue, red and green together, instead of brown it just adds more color.
 
Not sure what you mean about adding all of those colors. But the "brown" tint we would call that a warmer grade, meaning that the colors are mostly shifted towards orange... usually. On a color wheels we move the center point away from center towards the color we want to bring out. We don't raise everything, thats either a global saturation increase or makes everything brighter depending on what function you are using.

Start here: http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/01/7-tips-for-hd-color-correction-and-dslr-color-correction/

Then read those books. There are many blogs and articles online that will cover many of your questions. Then use this forum for specific questions you may have.

Good luck!
 
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