Is being a screenwriter alone enough?

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Whisper

New member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but screenwriters get paid 5% of the budget. When you hear about movies, you hear about the actors and the director. Not the screenwriter - unless he's also the director. Not to mention you have no control over the script once it's sold and others can destroy your story while taking credit for an idea that's all yours.

Is that a good enough reason to want to become a director as well? I've always liked movies (like TV better, though) but I was never a complete movie freak like most directors are. I never had an obsession with the camera. I feel like it's something you just know. I see aspiring directors that are so passionate and I'm wondering if I'm not even wasting my time thinking about it. Having said all that, I'm only 20 and don't have a definite idea for a career. But I do like screenwriting if it's a realistic goal.
 
Do what you're most passionate about. Screenwriting is a realistic goal only in that there are human beings who do it for a living, so it must be possible, but if you're just going by odds it's a longshot. I've been trying for 20 years. This is the first year I've been paid for any actual writing. Your experience may be different. There is no set path really. Just write and write and write and someday your chance may come. Or it may not. You must be prepared for that. You're young, so to get an agent do what I did, go intern for one. Show him one of your scripts when you're ready. Make as many personal relationships in the business as you can. Relationships are everything. Almost nobody gets hired by walking in off the street. Every break I've gotten as an editor (my day job) has been through people I knew. Once I established myself as an editor, then I could get work on my own. My recent break for writing was also because of someone I knew, whom I passed a script to years ago. So do it if it's what you're passionate about. Just be prepared to have a day job while you're trying to break in, preferably related to the business you want to be in.
 
Screenwriting as in being a writer is what a person really wants to do.

Some screenwriters stay that way others get the bug to direct or produce.

So yes, it's enough if that's enough for you, or no it's not enough if it's not enough for you.

On the last trilogy of "Charlie's Angels" I believe the screenwriters got paid $100k a week to fix up the script while they were still shooting.
 
Re: Is being a screenwriter alone enough?

In a word, no. While it's always been extremely difficult to break-in to The Biz in any capacity (acting. writing, directing), pretty much every screenwriter from Terry Rossio on down will tell you that it's insanely difficult to break-in right now as "just" a writer. (Which is why I started posting here on DVXuser--to learn more about production.)

>"Correct me if I'm wrong, but screenwriters get paid 5% of the budget."

You're not wrong, but you're only sort of half right. There's a rule of thumb--and that's all it is: a rule of thumb; it's not required in the MBA or where ever else--that 5% of the budget should be allocated for the screenplay. Yes, that means it gets paid to the screenwriters, but note that it doesn't mean that you, as an individual screenwriter, will always get the entire amount (which again, is not guaranteed anywhere). i.e. if the producers hire 5 screenwriters, all 5 writers would split whatever amount was budgeted for the screenplay.

On the bright side...

>"(like TV better, though)"

Because of the serial nature of TV production, it's much more common--in fact, it's commonplace--for writers to become writer/producers in TV.

Which brings me back to...

>"When you hear about movies, you hear about the actors and the director."

While the actor thing is true in TV, the director thing, not so much. And it's starting to become more common for TV writers to have their own fanbases. e.g. J. Michael Straczynski, Joss Whedon, Ron Moore, Damon Lindelof, Kurtzman & Orci...

Having said all of that, a writer can't not write - Mark
 
Hmm... some helpful posts here.

I have no plans to stay unemployed while writing, of course. I see how getting a job in the TV/film industry would help, but I'm all over the place. If I go to a film school, it's all or nothing after that. It's not a degree that appeals to all fields. You either get a career in film or you don't. Other fields would just look at that degree as useless IMO.

BitMaestro, is your ultimate goal to get involved in a TV series? That was my initial motivation, but I heard it's even harder to get into. I know producers get a lot more respect on TV, but don't you have to be rich to even think about producing a show? It's quite a risk for an annonymous writer, isn't it?
 
I don't think I'd be satisfied only screenwriting. I originally started as an editor, so I consider myself more of a visual storyteller. My eventual goal is to be a writer/director/editor with my own stuff.

But yeah, everyone I've talked to and all the sites/books I've read say it's incredibly difficult to make it as "only" a writer. They all recommended having another ability just in case.
 
There are no realistic goals in film!

I have made a living for the past 20 years as a screenwriter...

But I'm an old dude, and there was a *decade* between my first script on screen and my next big sale. I drove a forklift in between.

(which makes me, um, over 40)

If you want I can do the math on this, but there are probably around a million scripts in circulation in any given year, and fewer than 100 are sold in any given year. Writing screenplays is not a realistic way to make a living (even though I've done it for the past 20 years) - it's a massive long shot!

How many people who graduate from UCLA, USC and NYU film programs end up directing movies?

You do it because you have no choice - you just have to write scripts.

- Bill
 
Whisper said:
If I go to a film school, it's all or nothing after that. It's not a degree that appeals to all fields. You either get a career in film or you don't. Other fields would just look at that degree as useless IMO.
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Just to clarify, are you talking MFA or Bachelor's? I ask because you said previously that you're 20-years-old, so it could be either. And while what you say (quoted) above is true for a MFA, it's not as true for a BA.

BitMaestro, is your ultimate goal to get involved in a TV series?
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Yes.

That was my initial motivation, but I heard it's even harder to get into.
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Harder than what? Features? I wouldn't say it's harder, just different. i.e. on one hand, there are more jobs in TV. OTOH, those jobs require you to be in L.A. (Whereas, you can write (and submit) a feature spec from anywhere. OTOH as was noted above, most jobs are a result of networking, which means even if living in L.A. isn't required, it's highly recommended.)

I know producers get a lot more respect on TV, but don't you have to be rich to even think about producing a show?
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*Highly* abridged version: usually you pitch the show to a studio, and if they like it, the studio will foot the bill. So no, you don't have to have a lot of personal wealth.

It's quite a risk for an annonymous writer, isn't it?
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No more so than features, IMO - Mark
 
Just to clarify, are you talking MFA or Bachelor's? I ask because you said previously that you're 20-years-old, so it could be either. And while what you say (quoted) above is true for a MFA, it's not as true for a BA.
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Bachelor's.

*Highly* abridged version: usually you pitch the show to a studio, and if they like it, the studio will foot the bill. So no, you don't have to have a lot of personal wealth.
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But even if you do get to pitch a show to a studio and they like it, they're not going to make you a producer... am I right? I heard most of the time they just buy it from you and let the more professional staff work on it. Which means you might get some sort of credit if you negotiate, but the show will not be "yours" nor will you join the writing staff when they re-write your stuff.

That's what I gathered, do correct me if I'm wrong... There's very limited info about teleplays on the internet. Do you know any site/forum/group that's all about that? I think I've heard every possible myth - I gave up on my idea for a show simply because it wouldn't work for a feature.
 
>"Bachelor's."

OK, so don't worry about your undergrad degree:

1) Generally speaking, a lot of folks end up working in fields that have nothing to do with their Major. (e.g. My BA is in Music Composition and I currently work in the IT industry--hence the "bit maestro" nic.)

2) Having a Liberal Arts degree won't hurt you when applying to Film School for Graduate work. Some even prefer it to an undergrad in film.

3) For a writer, specifically, a broad range of knowledge and experience is very helpful.

In short, you'd be much better served by a degree in something other than film (or writing, for that matter).

>"But even if you do get to pitch a show to a studio and they like it, they're not going to make you a producer... am I right?"

Right. No studio is going to hand, literally, millions of dollars to an unknown writer and say, "go make us a TV show", anymore than they'd hand an unknown director millions of dollars and say, "go make us a movie". You have to show them that you know what you're doing first. That's why the above is the *highly* abridged version.

A slightly less abridged version: you write a bunch of specs (of current shows) to use as writing samples. Your agent sends these out to showrunners, and if one of them likes your writing, they'll setup a pitch meeting. If they like one of your story pitches, they'll have you break it with the writing staff. Then they'll send you off to either write a treatment or a first draft. You turn in your draft and they'll give you notes to rewrite or just rewrite it themselves in-house. Do good work enough times and you'll get asked to come on staff. Continue to do good work on staff and you can work your way up to producer. Continue to do good work as a producer, and now that you've established a successful track record, you may get a development deal and the opportunity to pitch ideas for your own show to studios.

>"Do you know any site/forum/group that's all about that?"

Well, there's Larry Brody's site, but I'm not too keen on it, personally. I would commend the WGA's Writing for Episodic TV From Freelance to Showrunner and Goldberg & Rabkin's Successful Television Writing to start. Then, if you're still interested, Alex Epstein's Crafty TV Writing and/or Pamela Douglas' Writing the TV Drama Series if you're focusing on drama or Ellen Sandler's The TV Writer's Workbook for sitcoms.

Mark
 
Thank you! Some really useful stuff there. I might just bring that show idea back to life... I'm still learning the basics of writing scripts and developing characters, so it's going to be a while until I can really be satisfied with anything I write. It seems there are not too many (personally haven't found any) message boards about teleplays, maybe there's less competition too... but I could be wrong. Anyway, glad to hear it's (somewhat) possible. I think I'd be better at that.

And yes, I don't think a film school right now would be a good idea. I have no idea where I will go but that's a whole different subject. I think when it comes to screenwriting alone, some books and creativity can be enough.
 
Whisper said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but screenwriters get paid 5% of the budget. When you hear about movies, you hear about the actors and the director. Not the screenwriter - unless he's also the director. Not to mention you have no control over the script once it's sold and others can destroy your story while taking credit for an idea that's all yours.

Is that a good enough reason to want to become a director as well? I've always liked movies (like TV better, though) but I was never a complete movie freak like most directors are. I never had an obsession with the camera. I feel like it's something you just know. I see aspiring directors that are so passionate and I'm wondering if I'm not even wasting my time thinking about it. Having said all that, I'm only 20 and don't have a definite idea for a career. But I do like screenwriting if it's a realistic goal.
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A screenplay is not a finished product. It's a blueprint for a finished product. I think the more you know about storytelling/acting/filmmaking/TV the better your screenplays can be.

I also think you have to make your own smoke. Short films are a great way to show off your writing skills.

I'm a carpenter by day and I like to think of screenwriting this way. If I have a blueprint for a house and never build it no one will experience it, live in it, see it.
 
Also, if you're more than just a screenwriter, and want to do directing, maybe even possibly some producing, you don't need anyone else's approval to make your own stuff. Learn the craft of the other things besides writing and be a one man team to make your own film, as difficult as it will be.

When I painfully realized that all my "possible" connections decided to flake on me, I said "screw them, I'm doing this on my own".
 
You seem like you're in a vague place about what you want to achieve as a writer. Are you in pursuit of some kind of lifestyle or are you trying to get what you write to as many people as possible? Do you want to entertain and influence?

People who want to make a living off of their art are, IMO, a little off-purpose. No amount of not working a "real" job is going to make you a better writer, it's just going to give you an easier life (which, again, is not going to make you any better as a writer). I understand the filmmaker's pursuit of monetary investment because they require investment in order to realize their artistic pursuit, but why in the world would a writer be concerned about breaking into some job as a writer unless they want to be paid to write what someone else is telling them to write or unless they want to put themselves in a position to climb the industry ladder in order to write what they feel is imperative to be told (e.g. hoping to "someday" get their chance to write what they actually want to write).

What is your goal? If it's to write, then what do you care what/when/how you're getting paid? That's what hacks and lames dream about.

Write what you want to write. If you want to write episodic stuff, send specs to animated shows or live action shows. Follow the submission process and move out to LA. If you want to write novels, write novels; if you want to write comics, write comics; features -- write features.

I don't understand what you mean by "realistic" goal. If you're writing screenplays and sending them to people to read, you're a screenwriter. Goal accomplished. If you're asking if you can make a living off of writing screenplays...lol

I mean, theoretically you can make money collecting dog crap and making scupltures out of it. But why in the world would anyone collect dog crap and make sculptures out of it unless that is literally the only thing they wanted to do with their free time?

Get a job, live your life and write as much as you want to write. If you're worthy of having your screenplays made into movies (or know someone who will give you a job), you'll get paid money for what you wrote.

But director, screenwriter, actor, colorist, inker, set designer, sculptor, painter, make-up artist, these aren't jobs. It's why you don't hear people say "I'm a working doctor," or "I'm a working garbage man". If you are a working writer or a working actor you're simply being paid for something that you do whether you're getting paid to do it or not, but it will never be a job -- not if you're making anything of any merit.

Just remember that it's about a thousand times easier getting rich and obtaining a work-free-zone lifestyle in business than it is in the arts. You're 20. Why not invest all of your time over the next decade getting rich in business and when you're 35 or 40 you can start producing all of the best scripts you spent the last 15-20 years writing? The most important thing as an artist is to never ever be influenced by monetary gain. The second you are is the moment your art becomes worthless, pointless. Go get rich, make a million bucks on your own so that your writing never has to do it for you.

A writer has to live a life that isn't about writing. That's how he/she creates their perspective on humanity. They have to live in it, then they can write about it.

In the end, though, there's no "back up" plan for the artist. Don't take anything I've said here to mean that. If you dedicate your life to it, that's it. No matter how rich you get, no matter what happens personally in your life, the art will always have to trump everything else. That's the only way the artist's life can have any meaning (as an artist).

So figure out what it is you actually want. If it's to be rich enough to lounge around all day and write, I'm 31 and that's exactly what I do. I spent from 19-26 as a devout and poverty-stricken novelist. I was living in a trailer in Gary Indiana and I literally had to steal groceries to eat. Then I decided I was tired of being broke, tired of having to go to a job and so I took care of things. I still have to do some money monitoring from home (on the north side of Chicago now), but for the most part I just play Call of Duty MW2 and write and hang out with my friends while learning whatever it is I want to learn that day. But most importantly, I write exactly what I want to be writing every single day. If and when someone decides to pay me to write what I write, that's fine, but in no way is it a motivating factor.

If you are an artist you'd be shocked how simple it is to "make it" in the normal world where normal people live and work. Most people want security and live in fear, artists don't, thus it's a lot easier for an artist to understand and win at the money game. I promise, getting rich is one of the easiest things in the world to do, probably because the artist has bigger goals in life than to be rich. But being a great (and lucky) enough artist so that you get rich from your art is nearly impossible, and most everyone will fail at retaining their artistic purpose by the time they reach that nearly impossible perch.

In the end, what do you want, what do you need? What is your purpose? Whatever's out of your control, who cares?

IMO

Good luck
 
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I think you need to ask yourself: Do you want to really be a part of this business or are more interested in becoming a celebrity? I just think that if you're truly passionate about creating characters & stories and doing your utmost to try and sell your work, you really won't be bothered about not getting the acclaim that actors & directors receive. Screenwriters are the most needed & the most abused people in Hollywood. And that's just the way it is. If you want the glory, for people to know who you are at the airport or to see your name in lights, become an actor. If you want total control over a project, become a director or producer.

Also, someone mentioned that there are about a million scripts circulating in any given year with about 100 being sold. I totally agree. However, I used to work for a coverage service and I would seriously say that about 95% of the scripts I was given were a complete joke, 3% were mediocre and 2% were worthy of production. There are A LOT of wannabe screenwriters out there who have no idea how to even structure a proper sentence. One guy put an exclaimation mark behind EVERY sentence of dialogue. In a 105 page script! EVERY DAMN SENTENCE! So if you are serious about being a screenwriter, take heart - if you truly are good enough, I believe you will be found & you will succeed.
 
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