F3: Is a Sony F3 worthwhile buying in 2015??

IMHO the AF100 is only capable of GHASTLY images.

The F3, is rather good. In fact, I would bet money that almost no one could pick out the F3 over an FS7 or other mid-range cameras in the context of a finished piece. I am considering an F3 for web videos along with a few other options. I need a better than average dynamic range as a priority, other characteristics just need to be decent. So as long as HD resolution is good enough, the F3 is awesome.

There are no moving parts like the old days, so operating hours are not all that critical. I would be looking to see if it was a studio camera or a world travelling documentary camera.
 
rx8pilot said:
IMHO the AF100 is only capable of GHASTLY images.

The F3, is rather good. In fact, I would bet money that almost no one could pick out the F3 over an FS7 or other mid-range cameras in the context of a finished piece. I am considering an F3 for web videos along with a few other options. I need a better than average dynamic range as a priority, other characteristics just need to be decent. So as long as HD resolution is good enough, the F3 is awesome.

There are no moving parts like the old days, so operating hours are not all that critical. I would be looking to see if it was a studio camera or a world travelling documentary camera.
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The Raid looked good at the cinema
 
I think most people forget that the Sony F3 has a 14 bit DSP. Unlike the FS700 and Canon C100 which are both 8 bit DSPs. While the internal codec is 8 bit XDCAM EX, that 14 bit DSP makes a difference. There's something much more subtle about the F3's image vs the FS100 and FS700, both of which I have used in the past, being a previous owner of the FS100. It's definitely worth buying used or new (at $5K new). In the end you have to look at the image with your eyes and figure if you see a difference and if it is worth it, and vs the other cameras in its NEW price range I would say yes. Most indie features and shorts (my bread and butter) cannot handle the immense amount of data and storage that 4K raw compressed or uncompressed demands. I believe that acquisition wise, we all want 4K, but the post workflow is still a big bottle neck and everyone ends up finishing in 2K or HD.
 
Doctor Wu, that is an interesting point about the 14 bit DSP, so that means it preserves more of its colour depth (and less issues such as banding) along the way before it finally goes down to be recorded in 8 bit?




I was doing a little bit of research of EX1R vs F3 (not because I have any wish at all to get a EX1R, *NOPE*!!! But because I have some experience with the size/handling of an EX1R because one of the people I work for a lot has this has her main camera, and I wanted to get a better idea of how they F3 might physically feel on a shoot), and stumbled across this old thread about the EX1 vs EX3:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...y-or-why-not&p=1305658&viewfull=1#post1305658

MattDavis said:
I shoot the same kind of stuff with my EX1. Corporate interviews.

As much as I hate to say this, the EX-3 may be a better choice if you can afford it, because whilst the image may be identical, the EX-3 will have 'presence'. Pimp it up with matte box, unnecessary stick mic with dead cat, heavy-set tripod. In corporates, it's what they want.

I am flabbergasted that in this day and age, we still have to pimp cameras for corporate shoots. The EX-1 will deliver jaw-dropping expensive images, and the EX-3 will do the same - no better, no worse. But the EX-3 will get the better response from 'The Suits'. They will deliver better responses, take you more seriously, do more one-takers, and generally be happier. An EX-1 will do just as well, but the fresh meat will do more for an EX-3.

I hate this fact (as an EX-1 owner). But that's how it goes.

The EX-1 is a fantastic candid camera, it's invisible, you get moments that a shoulder-mounted camera could never get, and I love it to bits. But I buy a big French Flagged Matte Box not to protect my lens, but to put lipstick and eye-liner on my EX-1.

I now know that the EX-3 looks like a modern cut-down DSR-570. Yes, the 570 is probably the better camera for SD thanks to bigger chips and better glass, but if you're shooting talking heads, it's a third of the cost of a tricked out 570 and the images look pretty good.

You're up against big bruiser macho cameras that deliver lesser images than the EX line. The EX-1 is an Ugly Betty, the EX-3 is an Agent Starling. Even the analogy gets me red mist.

My clients seem to be settled on "EX1 shoots professionally whilst not looking too expensive" whilst I bet if I did an EX3 shoot the 'expensive' poke would disappear, and for my clients, I'd lose out to DSR-570 teams. Hmmm. I'll stick with EX-1, others can/should go EX3.

Discuss? :)



PS: Invest in SxS cards. I mean it. You need 4 x 16 GB. I LOVE this workflow, but you really need to shoot with gay abandon all day, then on-line to hard disk each evening. You DO NOT want to be finding your laptop during the day. I would spend more on SxS cards with the EX-1 rather than get an EX-3 if my budget was tight.

PPS: I own an 8 and a 16. I rent 1-2 16s on event jobs, and will buy 2x 16s when the price moves. No kidding. Get more SxS than you think you'll need.

PPPS: At any point, should you think it's not worth it, look at good EX1 footage. It's all worth it. All my clients have noticed it. My day rate has increased for it. But right now, I'm working out if my Second Camera should be an EX-1 or EX-3. However good my footage looks, it's how the talent performs. Sometimes they need to be in front of a big pimped camera. So right now (at my price bracket) I'd go for an EX-3 over a DSR-570 whilst agonising over an F-355. I'd shove a Matte Box in front of an EX-3 quite frankly.
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Damn, that logic is still making a lot of sense many years later I reckon. I'm not considering the F3 because of its image (which is very nice too!) but because of a perception issue.
 
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Well i've never bought into that personally. i get hired for me, but what I'm not sure what perception issue you're talking about . What are you comparing it to. Something in its price range? The only comparison camera is C300 or an FS700 both of which are twice the price and don't look as good.
Who said F3 has a lower perception quotient? i would think higher.
. Re EX-1 > I did a 2 camera shoot with EX-1 a year or 2 ago outdoors with bright highlights. Cameras had exactly the same settings and it was interesting to compare. They matched well enough to cut but theres no question the F3 was a superior picture with better highlights.with the same settings and the cameras set to match .
Oh well make your own decision.
 
F3 still staying strong in low budget indie features and film schools. For a reason. If they'll drop in price slightly more I might get one or two as a b and c camera for fs7.
 
IronFilm said:
Damn, that logic is still making a lot of sense many years later I reckon. I'm not considering the F3 because of its image (which is very nice too!) but because of a perception issue.
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The "perception issue" is what around here some would call the "dog and pony show," but there absolutely are clients who will judge you positively or negatively on how expensive and awesome they think your camera gear is, and, not being actually versed in your industry, many of them will see larger cameras as better, regardless of make or model. I've used this to my benefit plenty.
 
Viddovation said:
The "perception issue" is what around here some would call the "dog and pony show," but there absolutely are clients who will judge you positively or negatively on how expensive and awesome they think your camera gear is, and, not being actually versed in your industry, many of them will see larger cameras as better, regardless of make or model. I've used this to my benefit plenty.
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+1
It takes a few years time to get into consciousness of end customers that are out of industry. Recently I actually had to explain that FS7 is far superior then DSLR (so their understanding was somewhere around 2010).

IronFilm said:
Alohype, how much lower do you think they could drop??? They're already going for under US$2k for the body!! :-o
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And that is a great deal price, but in my country they're still going between 3 and 4.5k $.
 
Ironfilm, one issue not brought up is you need to get lenses for the F3. I shoot with the F3 for everything - documentary, TVCs, - and in slog and use three separate Nikon-mounted lenses (Tokina 11-16mm, Tokina 28-70 and Nikon 80-200mm) mounted to camera with MTF lens adapter. In spite of what's written, shooting straight to the XDCAM cards and focusing using the existing LCD screen work well and the 13 or stops of dynamic range and the images in low-light will really give your productions a lift, especially with skin tones.

The other issue here is if you shoot with slog - and it's crazy not to - know that the footage has to be colour-graded.

Anyway, it's a terrific camera, even more so for the current prices.
 
Viddovation said:
The "perception issue" is what around here some would call the "dog and pony show," but there absolutely are clients who will judge you positively or negatively on how expensive and awesome they think your camera gear is, and, not being actually versed in your industry, many of them will see larger cameras as better, regardless of make or model. I've used this to my benefit plenty.
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Frankly in an ideal world I'd rather it isn't like that. But heh, I'll just take advantage of upside of depreciation and play the game! ;-)

alohype said:
+1
It takes a few years time to get into consciousness of end customers that are out of industry. Recently I actually had to explain that FS7 is far superior then DSLR (so their understanding was somewhere around 2010).
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LOL. Ah yeah, even inside the filmmaking community I find there seems to be a lag of a few years for the average person, and it gets even worse outside the camera department....

Afterglow said:
Ironfilm, one issue not brought up is you need to get lenses for the F3. I shoot with the F3 for everything - documentary, TVCs, - and in slog and use three separate Nikon-mounted lenses (Tokina 11-16mm, Tokina 28-70 and Nikon 80-200mm) mounted to camera with MTF lens adapter.
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Have ordered the adapter already. And I have dozens of lenses already from my current mirrorless/DSLR/BMCC/BMPCC shoots. Including a set of Rokinon Cine DS lenses.

Plus others such as Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, Sigma 24-70 f/2.8, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 and Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8

I think I'm sorted for now here! :-D Though even so I sometimes can't resist buying even more lenses.... just got another today for just ten bucks :-D

btw, I'm surprised you don't find the gap between 16mm and 28mm rather awkward?? Needs a nice 20mm prime to fill it in I think. Or the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 ;-)

Afterglow said:
In spite of what's written, shooting straight to the XDCAM cards and focusing using the existing LCD screen work well and the 13 or stops of dynamic range and the images in low-light will really give your productions a lift, especially with skin tones.
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That is very good to hear, I'm not going to use the Blackmagic Design Video Assist all the time for its recorder and screen function, sometimes I'd like to shoot even more minimally.

And not planning on using SxS cards either. Going to get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SDHC-SDXC-t...or-Sony-PMW-TD300-EX350-F3L-EX1-/221250078957
And use my SD cards I've already got for my hacked GH1 and BMPCC in it instead. Sounds like a sensible idea? And is waaay cheaper too.

Afterglow said:
The other issue here is if you shoot with slog - and it's crazy not to - know that the footage has to be colour-graded.
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Yup! Planning to start here:
http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/2014/05/sony-f3-resurrected-luts/

Already have some experience with this area to a small extent, as have shot with s log on FS700/FS7/A7s and I own a BMPCC too.
 
I would look into the Impulz LUTs for grading. One of the biggest gain with this is that you can use them with almost all cameras on the market and match your multi camera footage very well. I have done this with F3 and Nikon D800. Also the kodak vision3 50d LUT is really nice :)
 
Small update: I have gone ahead and purchased the Sony F3 this morning, thus I'm now a proud F3 owner :-D
Currently trawling through eBay for all the extras I'll now be needing to rig it up. Good I got the F3 so cheap, more money left over for accessories! ;-)
Just V mount batteries, RodeLink, and the BMD Video Assist will soak up a fair amount of my remaining budget.
 
Well it came also with 2x 32gig SxS, a fantastic Tilta baseplate, top plate, lightweight dovetail, and V mount battery plate, so when you consider what all of that is worth and subtract it out, I'd say I got the actual F3 (which includes the paid update for 444 10bit s log) for similar amounts, or even less, as people are still paying for a used Canon 5Dmk2.
 
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