Maybe you didn't understand what I stated. Regardless of the pro-video footage, a couple of camera operators can't be at every spot all the time and the attendees will snap their smartphones at will. Yes, most of them will be poorly framed, out of focus, over and underexposed. But they will be personal
iPhone 13 Pro
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
Thomas Smet
Veteran
With the personal comes the garbage and do couples really want to shift through ten hours of crappy video to find the good bits? What do they do with those good bits? Are they actually going to put together their own video with those good bits?
Sure it will and does in fact happen but I don't think Cinematic mode has suddenly changed that. Most guests don't care about such things and if they are getting shots at a wedding to give to the couple they have already been doing so since smartphones first had cameras. The potential to replace wedding photographers and videographers has already been there for many years and yet it hasn't happened on a large scale. In fact I see a ton more people out there producing wedding video now then I did a decade ago when I still did some weddings. I remember a time when a wedding video was a luxury and now its much more common to hire someone to do it and has become almost as much of a staple as the photos. I have even seen some weddings where the video is now prioritized over the photos when budget is a factor.
So each new advance in smartphones doesn't seem to be hurting the wedding video business at all. Could it someday? Sure maybe but fast food and TV dinners haven't killed home cooked meals or nice restaurants yet either. People still like quality and substance. Maybe someday we will become like the Borg and lose all emotion and value quantity over quality but that day is not here yet.
I still think in some ways what the pros do is valued even more because of the crappy ammeter video out there. Previously video was just video. Now there is a point of comparison and thanks to smartphones and YouTube people know what to look for in video. Their video language understanding has greatly expanded beyond just how sports and the news looks like. That understanding helps them visualize that yes video can look different depending on who does it. Before everyone had a camera in their pocket video was just video. Video also didn't look nearly as good as photos and the methods to shoot weddings was rather clinical. Power zoom from a single locked down tripod kind of stuff. Today wedding videographers have embraced every technique under the sun for creativity and invented many of their own. Its a much more mature art form today than it used to be and that greatly stands out today.
Brides don't just want to exist on video. They want to look great on video.
Could wedding videographers switch to smartphones? Sure but I don't see that happening just yet. If it does who cares really? Its not a competition. If one can pull off stellar photos and video of a wedding without missing anything then more power to them. Some of us buy better DSLRS vs cheaper ones because we want a better keep rate on our photos or want to shoot video with less chances of something going wrong. We want better manual controls and less chance of messing something up. Smartphones can grab some great photos and video but they can't do it 100% of the time. There are a lot of hits and misses and limitations. Pros will not want to sacrifice and have those limitations just because a phone can suddenly do good work. I would definitely use a smartphone at a wedding to pick up some shots if the setting made sense at the time but I would never in a million years expect it to handle the entire day. Its another tool in the bag and never meant to replace everything.
This is the relevant question. I've shot with some 2nd shooters who used them as well as DJ Osmo. During an event, I really don't care because the client has already been booked and the job paid. But the perception given by people seeing a Pro who in this case is probably more like someone in their early twenties who takes the bus, is that the Pro is not vested in his craft, and that yes anyone with a smart phone could be doing what he is doing. That would seem to marginalize the talents, and people could rightly think if a client is paying for that, he is getting ripped off. Even mirrorless, which is the most appropriate camera format for weddings people could have that notion if that's all you do with it, standing by on the sideline, wearing a single point and shoot. The real point is not to show people what you have, but to go about your craft, doing what you do in professional manner , not calling attention but the work ethic is worn on the sleeve, and the pro is recognized as one just as a consequence of his charisma, how he carries on with his work.
Another modern reality of the social media, is that the reviews go in long before they've seen the product. It's more important to work the event with professionalism, courtesy, respect and friendly manners than to shoot perfect video. If you are working the event, it can pretty much be assumed the product will be good just from how you go about your work.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Yes and this already happens. Except that they often ask people not to use their phones during the ceremony so that it will be an unmediated experience for them. But otherwise totally. But the interesting and personally relevant question for me is if people stop hiring pros because amateurs with high tech phones become "good enough". But there are so many skills involved besides exposure triangle and focus
The technological development over the last decade brought "professional" to the masses. In other words, whether you're shooting with A7SIII, A1, R5, C200/500, etc. you are capable of making movie quality footage using type of equipment that wasn't available until recently. And Apple is now claiming that its smartphones are at or near the high end consumer models. Which isn't true. But then the next question is whether the smartphones are good enough. And they may not be for the A-roll yet but they might be as a second/third camera. And they keep on improving. The codecs are getting better, the resolution, the low light, the AF, et cetera, et cetera. And it's likely that, within 3-5 years, they'll be good for the A-roll too.
As to the "operators". I have a friend who's in real estate and is often required to take photos of the apartments/condos/houses he visits. In the beginning, his photography was simply awful. The composition was limited by the shadows, the awnings, the balconies. There was too much noise in some shots, too much light in others, and no focus in the thirds. Now, I wouldn't call myself Ansel Adams - wrong initials - but he and I have talked about some of his stills and, over he years, they've gotten a lot better. I have another friend who used to have a Nikon and is now thinking of taking some photography classes (his wife is taking a painting class, so he is motivated). At some point, these smartphone shooters will be good enough for that B-roll too.
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
The Filmic Pro app now supports Prores 4K up to 30fps and 1080p up to 60fps:
ProRes Proxy (max approximate bitrate 170Mbps*)
ProRes LT (max approximate bitrate 360Mbps*)
ProRes 422 (max approximate bitrate 540Mbps*)
ProRes 422 HQ (max approximate bitrate 735Mbps*)
Getting the files off the phone takes a while though.
https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/10/...ks-impressive/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCOLdt4eO6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A01Pw-ZH_ks
Some sample clips:
https://app.frame.io/presentations/a5771a8b-482d-47c1-be73-44f4e29f8163
ProRes Proxy (max approximate bitrate 170Mbps*)
ProRes LT (max approximate bitrate 360Mbps*)
ProRes 422 (max approximate bitrate 540Mbps*)
ProRes 422 HQ (max approximate bitrate 735Mbps*)
Getting the files off the phone takes a while though.
https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/10/...ks-impressive/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCOLdt4eO6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A01Pw-ZH_ks
Some sample clips:
https://app.frame.io/presentations/a5771a8b-482d-47c1-be73-44f4e29f8163
Run&Gun
Veteran
It's always amazed me that they don't put a faster connection on the iPhone. It's almost like they DON'T want you to move anything off of it. It's bonkers. Even transferring pictures/videos off of an iPhone to a Mac is a pain in the ass. I backed up pictures yesterday and I have 12 pics/vids that it refuses to transfer. 14,600+, no problem(well, kinda sorta...). These random 12, NOPE.
And funny enough, I have a 13 Pro that I picked up two weeks ago, and it's still sitting in the sealed, unopened box, on the coffee table. I just haven't been motivated enough to activate it and transfer everything over to it from my 11 Pro.
NorBro
Major Contributor
They already have endless control and could have done whatever they wanted for many years and would never go out of business.
Instead we got great computers like M1s when they could have severely limited their own technology and milked, and milked, and milked with never-ending card and chip improvements.
Instead we got great computers like M1s when they could have severely limited their own technology and milked, and milked, and milked with never-ending card and chip improvements.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Despite some of the aggravating and head-scratching things Apple does sometimes, I’ll still take an iPhone and Mac six days a week and twice on Sunday, over Android and Windows.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
what's wrong with android? there's gotta be a minor differentiation in features between an iPhone and a Galaxy. some phones outperform and outspec iPhones in certain regards. I don't have deep knowledge or interest....
windows i agree. and I would use Macs anyway because I'm all in on FCPX. but I've never owned an iphone and hope I never do
windows i agree. and I would use Macs anyway because I'm all in on FCPX. but I've never owned an iphone and hope I never do
ahalpert
Major Contributor
how come they don't use USB-C?
Thomas Smet
Veteran
The transfer speed is going to be a rather annoying aspect of the iPhone 13 and ProRes. Its a pile of things like that where the iPhone video seems amazing at first but then the limitations really hinder professionals. I'm also not sure how I feel about ProRes files clogging up iCloud storage. Guess every user will have to upgrade to that 2TB iCloud account now. I also wouldn't want my iPhone attempting to upload an hour long 4k video shot in Prores to iCloud which will take forever.
Nice thing about Filmic Pro is the media recorded doesn't touch iCloud or the photos library on the phone. The phone is still limited to really slow transfer. If one is on set and doesn't have a 1 TB iPhone they are going to have to stop production and wait to offload all that media. Guess all users are just going to have to buy the 1 TB model to avoid that.
Apple sure did give a solid reason for users to buy the 1TB model and upgrade to 2 TB iCloud storage.
Nice thing about Filmic Pro is the media recorded doesn't touch iCloud or the photos library on the phone. The phone is still limited to really slow transfer. If one is on set and doesn't have a 1 TB iPhone they are going to have to stop production and wait to offload all that media. Guess all users are just going to have to buy the 1 TB model to avoid that.
Apple sure did give a solid reason for users to buy the 1TB model and upgrade to 2 TB iCloud storage.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Although that's all true, it's irrelevant in your context if people will actually use the phones for professional productions since the phones cost less than one person's meals for a few days, so they will just have multiple phones being used while footage is handled.
It's not like they are limited to one phone per set.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
what's their market share among working professionals and the top 20% of households by income? I doubt those numbers are available, but I imagine it's way higher. Because ultimately the iphone is a cultural statement/status marker. And conforming to that idea gives them tremendous power to do whatever they want without a bleat from their customers. yes, the design and the features are great and powerful and have often led the pack. But then there's a lot of headspinning ****ery
and their app store has been deemed a monopoly I believe in litigation. of course, that's a monopoly only within the apple universe.
anyways - you can thank me for holding out and preventing a true monopoly. you're welcome!
Run&Gun
Veteran
Almost all modern phones and computers have good features and performance. The big thing for me is the OS, user interface and user experience.