Invisible Gun Tips

SFNative

SFNative

Member
OK. I'm fairly sure that this is a totaly hair-brained idea but it has that crazy DIY spark so I'm going to throw it out there and see if anybody 1)has tried this or 2)has any idea if it will work.

It definitely seems that the best option for getting inexpensive guns for films is to use airsoft guns. They're cheap and you can get them in tons of styles. But there's that annoying orange tip. I know you can just remove the tip but let's say that you wanted to actually obey the law.

Would it be possible/feasible to use a green screen technique (or in this case an orange screen technique) to eliminate the tips from the footage?

I have no experience with green screening as I've never needed it but this just seems like a great way to bring some cost down, provided it works and isn't too much hassle for too little return.

For those who would say it's easier to just remove the tips and not worry about the law, one point could be that it would be easier to resell the gun afterwards if it still had the tip on it.

So, am I just way off base or what?
 
Might work. Actually what you'd want to do is apply an effect called a Spill Suppressor to your footage. Normally you'd use a Spill Suppressor on greenscreen footage after your key is complete. What it does is take a given color (normally green or blue) and desaturate it down to gray, so that if there is any leftover green spill it becomes a far less noticeable gray. I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't also work with orange... as long as there's no other orange in the frame that you want to keep, it should be fairly automatic.
 
Interesting. Of course, now I have to try it.

I have a friend who's Joe-Paintball and a couple of his guns have the orange tip. I'll see what I can come up with and post whatever results I get.
 
Just call your local police and tell them what you're up to and that you'd like to paint the tip black or remove it. I did that and they told me 'no prob.'
 
Trying to key it out could interfere with skin tones, so if you go that route, you might need to use a mask.
 
Keying could cause problems with other areas around the frame. You would have to have a really small mask that follows the tip of the gun or something, and it seems that you would still have to go back through frame by frame to make sure that it is always working. That's probably easier than going through frame by frame and painting out the tip, which would be the only other alternative besides removing the tip to begin with.

Why don't you paint the gun tips a bright green color to make the keying easier?
 
Is it that hard to take a marker pen and just black it? Marker pen will just wash or even wipe right off.

I just bought a toy gun for a short this week and it has this orange tip. I plan to just paint it with marker pen. As long as I am not doing some extreme closeups of the gun, I don't think anyone will be the wiser.
 
I'm doing this right now with a classic rifle replica that had red paint inside the tip. I edit in Premiere and I'm using the Color Change filter. Select the filter and blending, and it lets you change Saturation (which I pulled all the way down so it's gray) and Brightness if you want.

It's true red and orange may interfere with skin tones. I had to do a quick four-point garbage matte to isolate the gun tip in a couple shots. If you can paint the tips bright green or blue, that might be better, depending on what is in the scene.

What is the legality of the tips? I believe they can't be sold without the tips in certain states, but like tags on mattresses, the end user could possibly remove them. Obviously film and TV is shot without tips on the guns, but perhaps that is under police supervision (but likely not for interiors). Go outside without tips at your own peril!
 
Joshua Provost said:
What is the legality of the tips? I believe they can't be sold without the tips in certain states, but like tags on mattresses, the end user could possibly remove them.
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Just remember, nobody has ever been shot for waving a mattress around without the tags.
 
SF Native....

Pick up a book called "the dv rebel's guide" by Stu Maschwitz... it will answer all your questions about guns and production tips...
 
Joshua Provost said:
What is the legality of the tips? I believe they can't be sold without the tips in certain states, but like tags on mattresses, the end user could possibly remove them.
Click to expand...

The city of St. Paul (I think) was working on legislation to make removing the tips a crime. I'm not sure how far along it is, but I would imagine other areas of the country have similar laws. You'd have to check your area.
 
If you are filming a legitimate film, have all the permits, and have alerted the police, you've got nothing to worry about. Legislation removing the tips obviously does not pertain to legitimate filming.

If you use guns, don't go cheap. Get permission! Unless you are filming entirely within your house and no one will see.
 
HorseFilms said:
Trying to key it out could interfere with skin tones, so if you go that route, you might need to use a mask.
Click to expand...

Good point. I've noticed some wood tones will actually pick up a good deal of orange under certain ligting as well.

Capt Quirk said:
That might have some interesting effects if his guys are wearing camo.
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I don't actually have any guys. Not even any actual scenes here. This is all just theory. Good point, though.

Joshua Provost said:
I'm doing this right now with a classic rifle replica that had red paint inside the tip. I edit in Premiere and I'm using the Color Change filter. Select the filter and blending, and it lets you change Saturation (which I pulled all the way down so it's gray) and Brightness if you want.
Click to expand...

Nice. I'll play with that.
 
robot909 said:
SF Native....

Pick up a book called "the dv rebel's guide" by Stu Maschwitz... it will answer all your questions about guns and production tips...
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll look for that.
 
U.S. Federal Law

U.S. Federal Law

U.S. Code Title 15 Chapter 76 Section 5001
http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/...):CITE AND (CHAPTER ADJ (76)):EXPCITE

So, the tip must be present at sale and exchange of goods, but nothing federal says you have to keep it on. Check your state and local laws as well. Regardless, safety of your cast and crew should be your first concern, so any outdoor gunplay should be done with the cooperation of local authorities.

On a shoot last year in San Diego, we worked with the film commission to get permitting and insurance. We had a resin replica rifle (no moving parts), and notified them up front. Their only requirement was insurance and that we post signs at each end of the shoot to notify park visitors.
 
You can use a bright colored toy gun. In post you can easily change the bright color to shades of grey and black. Plus you won't cause a police incident.
 
Arson said:
You can use a bright colored toy gun. In post you can easily change the bright color to shades of grey and black. Plus you won't cause a police incident.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting expansion on the idea. I have to wonder about how much detail on the gun you'd lose in the process, though. Have you tried this?


To everyone who's coming up with ways to get around this method either legally or illegally, while I appreciate the fact that there are ways to not have to mask the tips out, this question was specifically about doing that, whether or not it works, how well it works and how difficult it is to do.

Rather than asking what time it is, I actually am asking how to build a clock. :)
 
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