Investing in a 5D mark II

[ciencin]

I've been looking at the video footage of 5D and thinking of investing in a second hand one.
My budget isn't that big so need to be carefull on what to choose.
There are some cheap 5D bodies on ebay but then they don't come with lenses or the cards, how much would you be looking at for the body + stock lens and a decent card? And what would I need to watch out for when I'm buying one?

(I would be a DVX100A user and want to get this camera for the video aspect and to learn some photography as well)

 

[slimchrisp]

If you want to save some money you may want to opt out of the 24-105 lens they sell as a kit with the 5D. Alone it will cost you $800-$1100, not sure with a kit, if you're even able to find a second hand kit. Since you're doing the ebay thing already, why not grab a $30 nikon adapter and pick up some primes? A little over $100 will get you a 50mm 1.4.

I'd probably get something a little wider too. I'd probably start with a 24 or a 28. I would think you could could be set on a good start to your lens kit with just a few hundred invested.

I've seen second hand 5dMKII bodies go for around 2K.

 

[commanderspike]

A cheap alternative to the L kit lens is to get the EF 28-135mm IS lens. Lower image quality of course, but a similar range and is stabilised.

Or if you want a wider lens, the Sigma 17-35mm is dirt cheap, if very soft at 17mm F2.8

Not sure about USD prices for the body, but 2nd hand in the UK the 5D goes for £1600.

 

[xmephestox]

you'll find that you'll be spending more on lenses that could probably get you 3-5 camera bodies. that's probably the most expensive part about getting a interchangeable lens camera. cf cards are cheap, good ones run for 100 bux a pop, you can find cheaper ones that will do the trick for 40 to 50 bux each. zooms are probably more bang for the buck but more limited, primes give you more speed and control but it's more to carry and end up costing close to the same or more to cover all the focal lengths you want. be ready to spend at least well over a thousand on lenses alone if you want excellant quality lenses.

but if u don't have that kind of money there are third party companies that sell much cheaper lenses but aren't as good in optical quality then first party quality lenses (arguable of course)
sigma, tokina, etc.

also check out keh.com

they are a lot of used lens options there too

 

[duranracing23]

i have a EF 28-135mm IS lens if you want it i can let it go for about $200.00

 

[PerroneFord]

By the time you properly outfit a 5D to shoot film, you won't have saved anything over a decent video camera. About the only benefit, is that you get to do it in pieces rather than all at once.

 

[xmephestox]

money can be saved in certain areas, recording medium, no need for adapter which used to cost just as much as a camera, (letus ultimate for example) and a really nice light and mobile form factor. and OF course, there are many drawbacks as well, you can go through the forums and read all about that. but you are saving a lot.

 

[slimchrisp]

but you are saving a lot.

i second that. buying second hand items you can have a pretty sweet starter setup for around 3k (camera/a few primes/z-finder/cards).

remember when the dvx100 was the ground breaking camera of the day? and that was around $3500 with rebate. good times we live in.

 

[nantnee]

how well do the SDHC to CF adatpers hold up.

 

[xmephestox]

sdhc cards to my knowledge will last u a lot longer, but are much slower, in both read and write. CF cards CAN burn out, but it doesn't happen too often, but they are MUCH faster and with FW 800 card adapters and express card adapters to offload with them, they save a lot of time compared to a usb sd card adapter. SD memory is also considerably cheaper.

 

[PerroneFord]

i second that. buying second hand items you can have a pretty sweet starter setup for around 3k (camera/a few primes/z-finder/cards).

I just don't see it. The 5D shoots images similar to the HMC150. Similar codec. That's a $3500 camera out the door. With a 28-360mm F1.6-3.0.

The Mk2 is $2700 body only. $3500 with a 24-105mm F4 lens. So the kit lens is slower, marginally wider, and WAY shorter. So now I need to get a lens to cover out to 350mm or so. To match the HMC150, it's needs to be F3.0 or so. The 70-200 F2.8 is $1300. So how do we find a lens that can cover 100-300 or more truly 100-350 at F3 or even F4 and come close in price?

I'll even grant that it would cost $1200 to put a Letus Extreme on the HMC150 bringing the total cost to $4700. So now we've got to find that lens for the Mk2 with a $1400 budget.

And then you're going to have to buy something to record sound with. And since there's no ND on the Mk2, you're going to either need a bunch of screw on filters or a mattebox and rails. So there's another $600-$1000.

remember when the dvx100 was the ground breaking camera of the day? and that was around $3500 with rebate. good times we live in.

Yea I remember. I bought an original DVX for $4k. Great camera.

 

[slimchrisp]

I just don't see it.

He wants to buy second hand.

- used 5dmkii: around $2K

- a few second hand nikon primes on ebay, say a 50 and a 24: under $300

- 32gb sd card: under $200

- z-finder (and this is the cadillac of optical view finders IMO): $375

That puts you right around $3K.

So the kit lens is slower, marginally wider, and WAY shorter. So now I need to get a lens to cover out to 350mm or so.

I think need is a strong word. Personal preference, but a 350 isn't something I use on a regular basis.

And then you're going to have to buy something to record sound with.

Granted. Another $375 for a new Zoom.

And since there's no ND on the Mk2, you're going to either need a bunch of screw on filters or a mattebox and rails. So there's another $600-$1000.

Again, I gotta differ with you here. Do you absolutely HAVE to have ND filters or a matte box? No way. Filters are going to cost you a what, $50-$75 a piece?

I'm not trying to slam you Perrone. I think it's good to present both sides of the argument. All I'm saying is that to have a functional camera and a good setup, 3K will get the job done.

In fairness though, a few ND filters and a zoom would need to be the next things on the list. I guess my point is that I was about to dump a ton of cash into an adapter, rails, etc. But instead the 5dmkii came out and I have everything I wanted in an adapter setup with my hvx, but in a package I am so much happier with. Personal preference, but saving money, which I most certainly did, better low light performance, smaller form factor and cheaper memory won out hands down in my case.

 

[PerroneFord]

He wants to buy second hand.

- used 5dmkii: around $2K

- a few second hand nikon primes on ebay, say a 50 and a 24: under $300

- 32gb sd card: under $200

- z-finder (and this is the cadillac of optical view finders IMO): $375

That puts you right around $3K.

Ok. My premise was looking at using the Mk2 to REPLACE purchasing a video camera at about the same level. So to replicate the functionality of a video camera in the same league (features, codec, expected use, etc.) I was trying to compare on equal terms. So "a few second hand primes" isn't really replacing the functionality of what we are comparing this too. And there is NO WAY you are going to get decent fast glass on Ebay for $150 a lens. Yes, you can do it if yiou buy an F2 50mm, and a F4 24mm, but then you're tossing away a lot of that DOF that you bought the Mk2 for in the first place, not to mention sapping it's wonderful low light ability.

I think need is a strong word. Personal preference, but a 350 isn't something I use on a regular basis.

Need was only used in the context of trying to build a camera system comparable to a true video camera of similar level. You can buy the Mk2 and put a F2 50mm on it and be done, and get away really cheap. But that's not going to help you much in making a movie.

Granted. Another $375 for a new Zoom.

I guess that's fair if we're comparing to a video camera's audio capability.

Again, I gotta differ with you here. Do you absolutely HAVE to have ND filters or a matte box? No way. Filters are going to cost you a what, $50-$75 a piece?

Ok, so most video cams have 2-3 NDs. 1 stop, 2-stops (optionally), and 3 stops. If you buy 3 primes, that's 9 NDs. If you buy 2 primes, that's 6 NDs. At your cost of $50 each, that's $350-$450. So what if you want a polarizer? At that point, the Mattbox becomes the cheaper route.

I'm not trying to slam you Perrone. I think it's good to present both sides of the argument. All I'm saying is that to have a functional camera and a good setup, 3K will get the job done.

I know you aren't trying to slam me. That's cool. I can buy an HV20 and have a good, functional camera for a HELL of a lot cheaper than a Mk2 or an HMC. So the idea that $3k will get the job done, really depends on the job. There is a reason that most lens packages for film cameras have 5-7 or so primes and maybe 2 zooms for coverage. If you are trying to shoot existing light in a small room, you are going to need a wide fast lens. So how much for that 24mm F1.4 lens? If you are going to shoot a night walk and talk, you're going to be on an 85mm or so at 1.4 or 1.8, so how much is that?

If all your shots are static, you have total control of the lighting, and you don't need lens filtration, then I agree. $3k gets the job done.

In fairness though, a few ND filters and a zoom would need to be the next things on the list. I guess my point is that I was about to dump a ton of cash into an adapter, rails, etc. But instead the 5dmkii came out and I have everything I wanted in an adapter setup with my hvx, but in a package I am so much happier with. Personal preference, but saving money, which I most certainly did, better low light performance, smaller form factor and cheaper memory won out hands down in my case.

The Mk2 filled your needs and that's awesome. But trying to convince someone else that it will fill THEIR needs because it worked for you is always a slippery slope.

I am currently in production with a Mk2. And we are using it on a shoulder rig and a Fig Rig. By the time we got the rails on it for follow focus, the lens or lens baby, a monitor so we could actually see, it's no smaller than my EX1. Maybe a bit lighter, but we aren't using great glass. Every setup we've done has used at least 3k of light and one had over 5k. We've gotten hammered because we don't have ND for these lenses. So we are playing games with ISO setttings and other tricks to try and get the shots where we need them.

The point is that making a REAL movie, with actors, crew, lighting, a moving camera, etc., is an expensive business. And thinking that you're going to somehow save money because yiou can buy a 5D Mk2 body for $2k is silly. It's such a small part of the overall budget, it's barely worth considering. If someone want's to build up a 5D Mk2 into a movie camera, then I think they are on the right path. 8mm and 16mm bodies aren't all THAT expensive either. But by the time you build them up to shoot, the game has changed.

 

[xmephestox]

well u can also look at it this way, yes a lot of things equate out to the same, u lose some where, u gain some here. just another tool for the job. u bypass needing an adapter system, by the time u have all that glass in front of a hmc, or ex1, or hvx, you lose as much light as being on a slower lens on a 5d. the ability to get a problematic shot and needing high iso with low noise ratio is a huge benefit. 3200 iso on a 5d will still look better then 12 db gain on a hmc. i won't argue about picture quality and sharpness, because that's just all res charts and so on.

to me that doesn't matter, impact of your good looking image, and it being able to resolve the detail you want where u put all ur hard work into the lighting, acting, and story is what matters to me. different means to the same end, but the 5d is a very cost effective option even if u compare it to the other systems because it's no need for adapter and low light capabilities are it's primary strengths and what people use it to shoot for. if it doesn't match the job then don't use it, it's never going to be a end all, i'm sure your loving being able to shoot at a 800 iso on your job and still having everything look wonderful.

and i'm sure we can all agree. 5d is a still camera FIRST and foremost. the video is just a benefit that we as filmmakers know how to exploit the hell out of. give us a watch that can shoot 1080p video at 45 mbps h.264 and people will be shooting 20 movies out the door with it.

 

[PerroneFord]

and i'm sure we can all agree. 5d is a still camera FIRST and foremost. the video is just a benefit that we as filmmakers know how to exploit the hell out of. give us a watch that can shoot 1080p video at 45 mbps h.264 and people will be shooting 20 movies out the door with it.

Isn't THAT the truth. When the DP said he was going to shoot 1600 ISO, I said WHAT???? Looking at it on my monitor in post, it's still pretty darn good.

Honestly, I could care less what people shoot with. As long as they are happy. I just think sometimes the true nature of some of these cameras gets lost in the hype. When the DVX came out it was like a firestorm. Same with the HVX, the RED, and the EX1. Then the 5D. Once the dust settles, they all produce images commensurate with their price and the time of their release. Honestly, I think this is why people are so excited about Scarlet. A 35mm sensor, with a solid codec, and at (hopefully) less than $10k ready to shoot. Designed from the get-go for video and not stills. We'll see.

It's an exciting time in our industry.

 

[ciencin]

I guess my point is that I was about to dump a ton of cash into an adapter, rails, etc. But instead the 5dmkii came out and I have everything I wanted in an adapter setup with my hvx, but in a package I am so much happier with. Personal preference, but saving money, which I most certainly did, better low light performance, smaller form factor and cheaper memory won out hands down in my case.

My thoughts exactly.
At the moment I can either get an 35mm adapter for the DVX, but then when in a years time I might need a HD cam like HVX, then getting a HVX + adapter + memory cards will add more to the cost.
Thats why the 5D is looking like better choice at the moment...