Into the Sun

S

SadMax

Well-known member
Can the DVX be pointed into the sun (say, for a start-in-the-sun-tilt-down-to-the-action shot)?

Well, let me rephrase that...

Can the DVX be pointed into the sun, without damaging the CCDs or any other part of the camera...?
 
Re: Into the Sun

A hotly debated topic. I have done a number of shots directly into the sun. I'm not sure how you would achieve the proper exposure for a direct shot at the sun that tilts down to a shot that will have much less intense light without either overexposing the sun or highly under-exposing your resolving scene.

If you are shooting into the sun, I would recommend that you stack some ND filters in front of your lens. That way, the lens will be able to tolerate the level of the sunlight without the possibility of damaging the CCDs. I have shot without doing this with no problems but I wouldn't recommend it unless your shot is a couple of seconds long and you nail it in a couple of takes...
 
Re: Into the Sun

I was thinking in terms of setting exposure for the end of the shot (at ground level).

I mean, no matter what you do, the sun (when it's high in the sky, anyway) is going to be overexposed, isn't it...?

Thanks!
 
Re: Into the Sun

if it is for a fast motion result, you can slowly adjust the iris every few minutes seamless (just do it very slowly), not sure if it is possible in the DVX, I did in a canon lens (large iris ring)

Ulisses
 
Re: Into the Sun

Hey, there's something for the DVX-200 wish list...a programmable-over-time iris!
 
Hey guys... I was looking around for stuff related to "shooting direct light" and came across this thread.

I'm actually using a Sony HDR-HC1, but thought it might not make much of a difference (even though I guess the sensors are indeed different than the dvx's)

But here it goes....

Is there any danger in damaging a sensor within the camera if you aim it at very bright lights (like flood lights or spots or something)? I'd have the shutter speed set very fast, etc.... so that thru the view finder, the light wouldn't be as bright, but is there any 'hidden' damage being done that you would know of??

Thanks,

James
 
Intense flood lights, welding flashes, direct sun light, (basically everything that normally hurts your eyes) all have the potential to damage your sensors if exposed long enough. I would not recommended it, unless you use extra ND filters. A polarizer will help in certain situations, especially when shooting arc welding and high pressure gas torches (otherwise, you'll get lots of smearing).
 
I've always shot into the sun, and never had a problem or damaged
the CCD...
Some of the early ones would give you a vertical streak whenever you
pointed at just about any great light source. The newer ones don't have a problem with it.

The guys above are correct about tilting down from the sun.
You've got to be able to handle the tilt as well as the iris at the same time.
I've done both... slow is good to practice with, and fast will come with that experience.

Guys... remember back when we first got IO's... then the tubes like the TK 76...
You couldn't shoot a match lighting without burning it in to the tube. Man I've seen alot of ticked off engineers, and even General Managers scream. You burn a tube and it took weeks to clear on it's own, if it ever cleared...
 
I think, the biggest factor for a possible damage is still if you are ZOOMING-IN !

Filming with a longer focal lenght will magnify the sunlight and like lighting a piece of wood with a lens/magnifier, it will BURN more or less a spot in your CCD(s).

So, if you really have to film into the sun - something that you can see daily on TV, done with shoulder-cams - then I'd make sure, that the zoom is 100% OUT. A wide-angle converter would even help to reduce the high-energy of the sunrays, but of course it's depending on the scene: WHAT FOR do you want to film towards the sun.

Any knowledge about WHAT are the most aggressive parts in the sunrays for the CCD? If it's the UV-light, then an UV-filter could possibly protect also a little. Or does anybody know what exactly is that thing that will burn a spot into the CCD? If it's just the light amount (photons), then you can't do anything, as darkening the picture would not give you the shoot you want...

At least 3 chips split up the sunrays in 3 parts - so it's not as damaging as with 1 chip...
 
I've shot tonnes (metric tonnes!) of welding videos with no problems (zoomed-in too.)

If you stop and think about it, the light is distributed across the CCD's, so there isn't going to be any heat damage -- and as far as I know UV and IR doesn't affect CCD's these days.

The problem is with the rear viewfinder, which DOES focus sunlight into a tiny point onto the LCD screen, which can cause damage (first-hand experience, here.)

HAS anyone damaged their CCD by shooting the sun?
 
I too have shot into the sun and have experienced no problem. How many countless shots over photographys history have we seen the sun shot?

My opinion is that there is no danger in shooting into the sun. It was my understanding that direct sunlight coming onto camera via the viewfinder is where you can get in trouble.
 
what if not the CCD but any other part gets damaged? - There is still the fact, that the lenses can work as magnifier and this will produce a lot of energy on a very small spot.... whether zoom is in or out, but of course a couple of times more with zoom-in...
 
If you leave the camera in such a position that the sun enters the viewfinder, it can and will, melt the the material that surrounds and holds the LCD.
Whatever that stuff is... is thin and light, and with a minimal amount of magnification thru the elements, it will physically burn and melt.

I've never done it with my DVX, but a few years back, it happened to a viewfinder on a DVC PRO I was using.
 
I understand the idea behind it; but (correct me if I'm wrong) just like when burning ants as a child with the magnifying glass............

Does'nt it require the perfect distance and angle for the magical sun to start a fire? What we need is for someone to physically take alens outside and do some tests
 
Works great with 35mm objectives - And for inside the videocamera: at the light-collecting point before the picture turns vertically and horizontally inside the camera, the heat is the highest and all kind of rays are the strongest, but I still wonder what part of the camera is near there, that could get damaged and which rays could/would damage the CCD that is located of course NOT in the burning-spot.
 
John_Hudson said:
I understand the idea behind it; but (correct me if I'm wrong) just like when burning ants as a child with the magnifying glass............

Does'nt it require the perfect distance and angle for the magical sun to start a fire? What we need is for someone to physically take alens outside and do some tests
Click to expand...

I think you already have a perfect distance in the camera if it's focused on the Sun.

I doubt LCD viewfinder will burn out. LCD is electronic and brighteness will not be more than a circuit is designet to put out. Unless you have a true optical viewfinder, like in most SLRs where image from the lens projected on focusing screen. I don't know if DVX has any additional sensors that work through the lens but that would be another thing that could burn out.

I don't think zooming in will be more harmfull either, because energy is spread over larger surface. And if I remember right those lenses with shorter focal lenght worked better in burning those ants. Which would prove the theory that you have more chances of burning CCDs when you zoomed out - energy is concentrating in one little spot.

Alex
 
I shot some close-up footage of the sun this summer using welders glass taped to the front of the lens. The sun filled the frame and I was able to identify sun spots on the surface. The image was green, of course, but I color corrected in post.
 
Alex108 is correct in that zooming does not matter, the brightnes of the image is constant at all zoom settings. On the other hand more heat is indroduced to the inside of the camera, as the image of the sun is larger and the amount of heat per surface area is constant. That way there might be some possibility of damage to the system, if not the CCD (glues etc?).

There is no need to avoid shots where sun is in the frame, as long as they are not overly long and overexposed. Specially moving shots where the position of the sun is not fixed are 100% safe.

That ant burning thing, it is the "speed" of the magnifying glass that determines the burn effectivenes; a large, strong (short focal length) glass gathers light on a large area and makes the image of the sun small = greater energy concentration = better ant burner.

About the shutteer speeds and protecting the CCD: in video cameras there is no shutter, as we understand the word, the sensor is constantly exposed to the light, "shutter speed" is the length of the sample period, which if fully electronic. In a film camera (still and motion) the shutter speed truly governs the time the film is exposed to light. Also in pro SLR Digital cameras. In amateus slill digital cameras there is no "shutter" either, how else could the electronic viewfinder work?
 
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