Interview with Canon's Larry Thorpe on C300 - Explains a lot

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Personally, I think Canon is so often misguided in it's intentions vs. what it comes out with, that the only way it could hit a home run is by accident.
I love the whole DSLR thing, but Canon's extremely conservative nature means that one really should scrutinize the C300 as to whether it lives up to it's presentation as a 20K cinema camera.
 
Rick, what is the title of this thread? This thread has been more about dis-proving people than constructive. I for one have not read on this site before the words "Block him" or "block me". It's gone side tracked.
Yes, everybody is read up on the C300! But look at it different, or from a corporate stance. Canon even said as a slogan, "The story begins". Now it's "Leave no story untold". What is the C300? To me, it's a upgraded 7D sensor packaged into a remolded ergonamic form with a processor that is due for an update. Right behind that is a HDslr packed with 3 new processors even if they are the stills division. It's still an I-frame recording 3 sensor holding camera. THEEEENNNN, we have another HDlsr 1D looking thing with the red "C" on it.
So what am I saying here about the C300? It's to Canon a test. Hype. A foot in the door. Look at us! But it cost $20,000. It's not meant to sell big. That's why it costs so much. SO only the productions with big budgets play will with them and provide feedback to Canon and luster mixed with hype to us . You watch, Canon will be there on all sorts of productions behind the scenes saying "Look, our camera is on this set". All while they work on that Canon 1Dc and the C400. And productions will use it, backed with Canon finance and sponsor. Don't take this hard Rick, but you and I won't be ones that a Canon C division rep comes to visit. No offense.

Straight from Maeda's mouth.
Q: There’s a lot of talk in Hollywood, now, about 4K cameras. RED has always advocated 4K. Sony is ready to deliver their 4K F-65 camera. Is there a Canon roadmap for 4K?
A: We honestly don’t really know at this stage. But, coming out with this product, we’d like to start the feedback process with the community here in Hollywood and understand more of where to go or where the expectations of the industry are. Outside of the cinema industry, there are many Canon EOS 5D Mark II users. Particularly there are many users in the commercial production area requiring or requesting even higher resolutions. As we have shown yesterday, the development of a new-concept DSLR with 4K is in the works.
Q: A Canon DSLR with 4K video? How did I miss that?
A: It was in the showcase as you entered our exhibit on the Paramount stage. It’s still a prototype. It will record video in motion JPEG 4K. (here is where this camera and the HDslr is going)
Q: The other tough question: if this is the first of many more cinema cameras, would Canon consider entering the “rarified” high-end, occupied by Arri, Panavision, Sony and Red? This is the area where cameras are counted in the hundreds (or sometimes a few thousands), not in the millions that you are accustomed to manufacture. Is that something Canon is possibly interested in? Limited numbers, more expensive, very, high-end?
A: At this point, we can’t give a definite no or yes. But we’ll continue to look at developments in the industry and determine what to do, where to go.
Q: I saw some many third-party accessories for the camera (OConnor, Steadicam, Transvideo, Manfrotto, Red Rock, Zacuto, 3Ality Technica 3D, AJA, Cine Deck, Arri…
A: We’ve actually been working fairly closely with other companies, including ARRI, to accommodate their accessories and systems. Of course, ARRI has accessories for the lenses. And we’d like to supply lenses for their cameras. We sort of view them, in some ways, as a partner.

Thats straight from the lions den. Thats says more than any white paper or pointing cameras at blue led's can say about Canon's roadmap with this launch.


This camera is a low production run test for Canon to narrow it's market place and to feel out the BIG BIG boys. It will take a great image but It's not a $20,000 camera on paper! It's just a first step and the price covers the venture. Anybody remember the canon event just over a year ago? 120 megapixel sensors and all that jazz? Now talk of 4k mpeg s35 cameras packed in 1d bodies, with a picture of it to back it up? I don't think Dig!c DVIII will be there. They will have to hybrid the processors if they are to hybrid the system (being the 1Dc body).

I agree with Barry. I agree with his first statement that this C300 camera is meant for those with ASC in their title. And a few guys that throw money away. Rent this cam. Better is over the horizon. But be excited. These are great times for those interested in motion capture.





 
The C300 is priced about 10% lower than the F3 and about 25% lower than a Scarlet all geared up to run. What have been said about the technology in the C300 it seams two things stand out.

First is the sensor which by the way it works will be one of the best, if not the best, sensor of all existing super35 cameras. But until we see some charts who knows. Next is the onboard high bitrate 4:2:2 recording. Then there are some downers like no 10-bit output and the external LCD/XLR thing.

But what's really compelling about it is the use of EF lenses. I bet most of us have a 5DmkII with a nice set of lenses and CF cards. No need to spend another dime besides the camera itself. Weathersealing and the small size and it can go in many places other cameras wouldn't dare or fit.

I can see myself using a C300 for pristine 1080p capture, excellent green screen capture and when there's a Canon DSLR shooting 4k and stills continue to use same lenses and same CF cards but have the ability to do 4k when I have the need. Would a Scarlet be better? Would the F3 be better? Yes and no. But I like the fact that I don't have to reinvent everything around a new camera. And I bet it will run without a hiccup since it's a Canon!
 
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dustylense said:
But, coming out with this product, we’d like to start the feedback process with the community here in Hollywood and understand more of where to go or where the expectations of the industry are. Outside of the cinema industry, there are many Canon EOS 5D Mark II users. Particularly there are many users in the commercial production area requiring or requesting even higher resolutions. As we have shown yesterday, the development of a new-concept DSLR with 4K is in the works.
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Which is why I think Rick and others have responded here in the way they have, we ARE telling Canon exactly where we think they need to go. Just another point of view amongst the countless they will be paying attention to. But a way to have our voices heard nonetheless. That is also the purpose of the forums, not just to vent, but rather to focus the attention of the manufacturer on what an enduser's real response is. I know for a fact that these forums are being looked at by the manufacturer's, because I have had direct feedback from them occasionally at the one I work on.
 
editman said:
The C300 is priced about 10% lower than the F3 and about 25% lower than a Scarlet all geared up to run. What have been said about the technology in the C300 it seams two things stand out.
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again, let's be fair. c300 is 20k, working scarlet is 14k with the same elements (monitor, handle, batteries, card, card reader, etc.). if you're speaking about rigs etc, then add the same price to the c300. as much as i know you also need a computer with the c300.
more generally, if someone can't make the red, the canon or the alexa shine, he should immediately reconsider his job. film has its limitations too, you have to meter light carefully and work within its limits.
people should try them instead of just watching 5 videos on youtube and vimeo.
 
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In store prices in Sweden has the F3 at about 10% higher. With the F3 to get the most out of it you have to add s-log and external recorder so doing that and it's the most expensive camera out of these three C300, F3 and Scarlet.

But you can get the F3 cheaper than that and I expect the C300 to get lower as well.
 
If the price of the sony is higher in sweden, canon price will be too, with vat, etc.
In France: F3 without slog is 14000€ (19000$), canon should be 20 000€, and scarlet package (with monitor, media, etc) is 13500€.
 
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ArthurD said:
If the price of the sony is higher in sweden, canon price will be too, with vat, etc.
In France: F3 without slog is 14000€ (19000$), canon should be 20 000€, and scarlet package (with monitor, media, etc) is 13500€.
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So the F3 is $19,000 in US dollars... in the US its $13,900 and with a rebate $13,100... so that would make the Scarlet higher than 13500€ if I'm going with the $14,000 package... sad that you guys have to pay more...
 
ArthurD said:
again, let's be fair. c300 is 20k, working scarlet is 14k with the same elements (monitor, handle, batteries, card, card reader, etc.)
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EVF is the big distinction... that's an extra $3k or so... but it looks a great EVF.

The bigger problem with Scarlet would be kitting it out for a full day in the field... 10+ batteries, 100s GB of SSDs. I really want a Scarlet, and have the budget for the barebones kit, but I know it is nowhere close to a flexible working kit.
 
well i just checked the price of the f3 in the main video shops in france. one of my friends ordered the scarlet and with shipping, taxes etc. he has to pay 11200€, then there will be the 20% vat, so 13500€.
EDIT: the C300 is already listed, and we can preorder, in at least 2 important pro shops at 14500€ (including taxes). so it seems, it will be 14000$ and not 20000$. so exact same price for f3 (without slog), scarlet package, and canon c300: around 14000$.
 
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stockfuel said:
EVF is the big distinction... that's an extra $3k or so... but it looks a great EVF.

The bigger problem with Scarlet would be kitting it out for a full day in the field... 10+ batteries, 100s GB of SSDs. I really want a Scarlet, and have the budget for the barebones kit, but I know it is nowhere close to a flexible working kit.
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3 batteries should do it and a 2nd SSD. Actually, rental of those accessories shouldn't be too much of a problem...
 
A cameras price is not the whole truth. To make the F3 work you have to buy batteries, SxS cards and/or s-log with maybe an external recorder. Same thing with Scarlet. The only camera that works out of the box with the addition of a $50 CF card is the C300.

Clearly C300 has the lowest price considering that.
 
Symon said:
14500€ is $20K
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yes, but in europe, in general, as we have VAT etc, a 10000$ camera in US=10000€ here. same for iPhone, computers, etc. so if the price here is 14500€ it means that it will be 14500$ in US (as you don't have 20% VAT etc).
 
editman said:
A cameras price is not the whole truth. To make the F3 work you have to buy batteries, SxS cards and/or s-log with maybe an external recorder. Same thing with Scarlet. The only camera that works out of the box with the addition of a $50 CF card is the C300.

Clearly C300 has the lowest price considering that.
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http://www.red.com/store/scarlet/product/scarlet-x-al-canon-mount-package

I don't get it. there is everything in the package for 14000$:
 
ArthurD said:
well i just checked the price of the f3 in the main video shops in france. one of my friends ordered the scarlet and with shipping, taxes etc. he has to pay 11200€, then there will be the 20% vat, so 13500€.
EDIT: the C300 is already listed, and we can preorder, in at least 2 important pro shops at 14500€ (including taxes). so it seems, it will be 14000$ and not 20k. so exact same price for f3 (without slog), scarlet package, and canon c300: around 14000$.
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I've called a few places and they keep saying they don't know the price yet... I like the camera... I can steal all my friends nice ef L primes with low f stops and his longer lenses as well... I like the idea of simple in and out with the camera... but would still do a test drive with any camera...

In the end its a tool... have rented F900's, Vaircam, 35mm, Super 16 & 16mm, Viper, Si2k's, EX3, DVX (oops own that one), JVC, Digibeat, betacam and a Red 1MX and I'm sure there's a few more in there.... its whatever it takes to get the job done...

A friend and I have thought rental still my be the way to go.... since the digital age is here and camera will always be changing...
 
It's futile comparing dollars to EURO or SEK so let's look on what the cost will be in each region. I don't even think Scarlet has a price in SEK yet.
 
ArthurD said:
http://www.red.com/store/scarlet/product/scarlet-x-al-canon-mount-package

I don't get it. there is everything in the package for 14000$:
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Not quite. You need more ssd and batteries. Gets expensive.

The one 64Ssd will run about 25 min of shooting. The 2 red volts, about 25 min each.
 
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