Interns File Lawsuit Against FOX Searchlight

adamr316

adamr316

Well-known member
http://www.movieline.com/syndication.php?vaid=4aa4185e296cbbf34ba55b802a3e5ed4

It's been a long time coming. Unfortunately these guys will probably get blacklisted.

There's a lot of talk on news sites about "paying dues" and that type of stuff. Thing is, any company who does this is technically breaking the law. A company must provide an educational experience and be burdened by the intern. So whatever you may think or how things are/have been could be wrong, legally. And it should have been in this cutthroat industry years ago. Or ANY industry for that matter. Before many of us were born, even. It's this type of stuff why unions were formed.

Yes, they volunteered for the job but I can bet they were promised in the beginning that they would do some "real work" after the grunt work. Something that would satisfy the legal requirement of benefitting the intern. Now, I wouldn't expect them to be given the chance as a staff writer, camera operator or A.D. but maybe be an assistant of an assistant to a grip or *something* related. One problem they may have though is taking a year to file the suit.

As far as paying dues, there are other ways to go about things besides getting coffee and taking out the trash. Indie projects to demonstrate your skills is one ticket. A buddy of mine did a slew of music videos and one got on BET. Guess who made a bunch of connections without getting somebody their coffee? What about those guys who made the psycho/killer clown trailer and got a development deal?

The key is definitely networking and proving you're an asset. That goes for any industry though. But I wouldn't hire the guy who only took out the trash and got coffee/lunch for a movie. Unless I was looking to hire a coffee/lunch getter and trash taker-outer. Sorry, I can handle those tasks on my own or I'll get a paid PA to do it.
 
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I'm a huge supporter of the intern process and if all you do is fetch coffee, etc., and nothing ever related to work in the actual field of your study, that's kind of F'ed up and clearly those people were taking advantage of the interns.

However, if you're there and can at the very least - observe, that's a huge education in itself and maybe they should be grateful for that.

Suing is ridiculous in my opinion when all they should have done was complain to their school.
 
One of the two plaintiffs wasn't a student- he's a 42-year-old with an MBA who wanted experience in a new industry. He was likely testing the waters and won't care as much if he's blacklisted, since he's now discovered first-hand how much abuse this industry doles out.
 
What would a 42 year old production-uneducated MBA think they were going to get out of an unpaid internship on a film production? On the job training? Not gonna happen.
 
There's a lot of talk on news sites about "paying dues" and that type of stuff. Thing is, any company who does this is technically breaking the law. A company must provide an educational experience and be burdened by the intern. So whatever you may think or how things are/have been could be wrong, legally. And it should have been in this cutthroat industry years ago. Or ANY industry for that matter. Before many of us were born, even. It's this type of stuff why unions were formed.
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I honestly think that getting on any production of that magnitude and seeing it go from start to finish, even just in this position, is an extremely educational experience. I know the first feature I worked out really allowed me to figure out how things actually worked...I guess if you want to be nitpicky about it, you'd have to look at the wording on what is an educational experience and at what point would you be abusing your unpaid intern.

The key is definitely networking and proving you're an asset. That goes for any industry though. But I wouldn't hire the guy who only took out the trash and got coffee/lunch for a movie. Unless I was looking to hire a coffee/lunch getter and trash taker-outer. Sorry, I can handle those tasks on my own or I'll get a paid PA to do it.
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If I had an unpaid intern who got coffee with a smile and was always on time, they'd be the first person I'd call back for a paid position on the next one. It's hard to find people who can merely just show up, not to mention do the work and be excited about it. So when I find those people I try and hold on tight.

This guy is just acting like a rockstar before he even knows how to play guitar, and from that alone I can tell you I'd never want to work with him.
 
I don't hire un-paid interns. When I hire interns I always pay them something, albiet not a lot. I feel by paying them something they feel more a part of the team and are less likely to become a squeaky wheel. Whether this be just complaining or as Searchlight has found something much worse.
 
Per the article: ' Glatt, a 42-year-old AIG employee who volunteered to work as an accounting intern, was handed the demeaning job of “preparing documents for purchase orders and petty cash, traveling to the set to obtain signatures on needed documents, and creating spreadsheets to track missing documents in each production employee’s personnel file.”'

Which is all accounting type of work. What exactly did he expect?
 
Perspectives aside, I don't like the tone of the article. The writer could barely disguise his insults against these plaintiffs, and interns in general.

As far as paying dues, there are other ways to go about things besides getting coffee and taking out the trash. Indie projects to demonstrate your skills is one ticket. A buddy of mine did a slew of music videos and one got on BET. Guess who made a bunch of connections without getting somebody their coffee? What about those guys who made the psycho/killer clown trailer and got a development deal?
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I agree. I think every aspiring filmmaker / videographer should pursue this course of action. In fact, every aspiring _________ should do their own thing instead of slaving away at internships.
 
chromeboy007 said:
Perspectives aside, I don't like the tone of the article. The writer could barely disguise his insults against these plaintiffs, and interns in general.



I agree. I think every aspiring filmmaker / videographer should pursue this course of action. In fact, every aspiring _________ should do their own thing instead of slaving away at internships.
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Yeah, seriously. The tone of this article is awful...it really makes it difficult for you to formulate an opinion about whats actually going on.

As much as its a good idea to always be working on your own stuff, there is something to be said about working your way up to the top. If you want to direct, alright, there isn't too much of a choice besides making your own stuff and networking...maybe you can come up as an editor until they give you a chance to direct your own stuff, I agree with you on that.

Otherwise if your end goal is something other than directing it's a little silly to just skip all the stuff that comes before. Can you just suddenly become a production designer with no knowledge of props or set dressing? Can you really call yourself a DP if you don't know all the types of lights and what they do? Can you imagine a 1st AD who has never done a lockup? The way you learn all those things is by working under people who have been doing it for longer than you've been in the industry. While it might be paying your dues, you're also learning valuable knowledge for later on.
 
Same is true of The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. The first thing you do when entering their office is... "Holy crap, their whole office is stuffed by interns." Clearly the guy is preaching equality for all on his show but is practicing anything but in his office.
 
I thought the article was actually very amusing and sardonically on-point. These interns are suing Fox Searchlight for making them do intern work. Of course it's demeaning to have to run for coffee, get lunch, take out the trash and clean the office. Of course it sucks that you don't get some kind of one-on-one mentorship with some god-level craftsman in the paid emply of his majesty, herr director. Of course it's sucks to not get paid. But isn't all of this EXACTLY WHAT YOU SIGN UP FOR? Isn't that what everyone says an internship is? It's doing the s..tty work that no-one else wants to do for little or no pay until your internship is up and you move on, having paid your dues, and find a paying job? I actually know a number of people who interned and then were asked to stay on with the company they worked for as a paid employee (often in a better job with some real duties).

The thing about interning is that, IMHO, it's not about "learning the job." It's about doing the work and proving you can do it. The job doesn't have to be operating the camera - if you want to be a camera operator when you're done with your internship, you should be spending every waking second that you're NOT interning, learning how to be a cameraman. If you want to be a writer, a director, a production designer, a DP, a gaffer, you should know how to do your job (or at least the job three steps down from your dream job) BEFORE you do the internship.

I busted ass to be on a film set. This recent March, I paid my own ticket to fly out here to LA, slept on my friend's couch for three weeks and did every demeaning task I was asked to do as his assistant on the last film he directed. My only pay is in deferrals, and we all know how that works out. I don't regret it one bit. It's what you do - anyone who bitches about having to do intern duties isn't fit to be on a film set. If you don't feel you got anywhere through your internship, find another way - lawsuits only get you blacklisted, and this is one instance in which I don't necessarily disagree with the entire idea of that!

Anyways, all that to say I thought the writer of the article understood how ridiculous the internship job is, but also how important it is that someone be so dedicated to their line of work that two years getting coffee for the 3rd AD on a Darren Aronofsky set seems like the dream job in and of itself. I'd have spent two years slowly removing my testicles for that job. Or even just to be at Fox Searchlight.
 
Michael, I think you hit it on the head. This lawsuit is ridiculous. That is what an unpaid internship is about. It's about having a look at the company and them having a look at you without you touching anything. If they see promise, then you gradually get to do more on a set. But don't expect to touch a camera or a mixer during a job. It is not on the job training. I have placed interns for the past 30 years in top level productions and studios. If we like them, and there is an opening, they stay. I have PA's that babysit and evaluate.
Even pages are interns that conduct tours, etc.
 
I'm 35 and am not in the film industry (but I want to get into it)...if I had the opportunity to work on the set of a major movie, I'd get coffee, shine the janitor's shoes, take out the garbage..who cares? It would be a great opportunity to mingle, make connections and ask questions.

I'd leave a good impression and make it so they call me for the next gig right away because they'd know I'm reliable and punctual....eventually, you earn the respect of others and get better gigs.

These guys disgust me.
 
I think they are fighting the good fight. Well, not these guys in particular. But interns should be paid. It's difficult to live being an intern. Yeah - everyone does it. But honestly, interns should get paid a little bit to exist.

These guys messed up by suing the wrong company though. They were never employed by Fox searchlight. They we never retained by them. They didn't have anything to do with Fox searchlight. Because Searchlight is the distributer that bought the rights to distribute Black Swan. Fox had nothing to do with hiring crew or retaining them.

If anyone should be sued, it's the production company. But these guys would rather go after the big boy because they are a studio. So these two interns targeted the wrong guys because they wanted press and were looking for a quick few million dollars in a settlement. Too bad they messed up the suit. They have nothing going for them now. And they've blacklisted themselves, not because they are complaining about being an intern, but because they are out for a quick buck and target a studio that had nothing to do with their hiring.

That said, the internship system should change. But that's a different debate for a different day.
 
I think some of you are missing the point. If you are an intern in the camera department or lighting department or any other department then yeah you learna valuable job but if you are interning and simply are asked to do PA's job for no money they you are not learning squak.
 
Michael Traven said:
The thing about interning is that, IMHO, it's not about "learning the job." It's about doing the work and proving you can do it.
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How do you prove you can do the work if you don't learn what the work is? I'm not so sure it matters what our opinions might be on the definition of an internship. I've seen interns in a lot of fields, and they all have some semblance of an education in the area that relates to their studies; the school makes sure of it, since anything else might not count for credit. But the school really should vet these things. If you don't get to be somewhat exposed to the job you can't really say it was all that helpful. Volunteer work is not at all the same thing as an internship. If you were talking about unpaid labor you would be right, but we need to have a line on that.

In terms of the article, I don't think we're missing any point. Yes, an intern who isn't learning isn't getting much out of it, but this particular person seems to have been doing exactly what would be expected of an intern. The problem is that he personally has higher qualifications, which means that he probably shouldn't have sought an internship in that area. It's not like he was just making coffee all day. Which would be a craft services internship.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
I think some of you are missing the point. If you are an intern in the camera department or lighting department or any other department then yeah you learna valuable job but if you are interning and simply are asked to do PA's job for no money they you are not learning squak.
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When you first join the army, you need to do unrelated crap every day...the point is to prove you have discipline and follow orders.

The lone fact that you have the opportunity to be on the set of a major Hollywood movie really gives you an opportunity to network that few people get. Now, if this is your 10th intern gig and you are still schlepping trash or getting coffee for the janitor, then there's a problem; however, if this is your 10th intern gig and you are still doing this crap work, then the problem is most likely with you.

This is the sad reality of almost every industry. The new guys get the grunt work that the old guys don't want to do...you pay your dues and move up.
 
I'm not talking about operating the camera - I'm talking about doing the intern work: running for coffee, getting lunch, etc. I'm considering attending college here in LA next year, and hopefully interning as soon as possible. If/when I go for an internship, I'm not going to be demanding that I be taught how to operate the camera; that's what film school is for. All I need is someone to put me in a studio or on a set and tell me what to do. For 90% of internships, that's answering phones and getting coffee. That's all I need. I don't expect Mr Miyagi to teach me the ways of the art, only that I be given a chance to prove, as Phil said, that I'm worth hiring. That I'm capable, intelligent, reliable, dedicated... and not totally bats..t crazy!
 
Phil1076 said:
When you first join the army, you need to do unrelated crap every day...the point is to prove you have discipline and follow orders.

The lone fact that you have the opportunity to be on the set of a major Hollywood movie really gives you an opportunity to network that few people get. Now, if this is your 10th intern gig and you are still schlepping trash or getting coffee for the janitor, then there's a problem; however, if this is your 10th intern gig and you are still doing this crap work, then the problem is most likely with you.

This is the sad reality of almost every industry. The new guys get the grunt work that the old guys don't want to do...you pay your dues and move up.
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+1
 
Interns should be paid (at least minimum wage).
Interns shouldn't complain that they are fetching coffee instead of directing.
"Sure kid I get it, you're the next Kubrick - now get me my coffee like a asked and stop whining for God's sake!"
 
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