Internal microphone or shotgun for concert?

A

abeas

Well-known member
My girlfriend is recording me this weekend playing drum set and timpani for a concert at a church. The ensemble consists of a full choir, horn section, string section, digital piano and electric bass. She will be positioned at the back of the church; I know no idea of the church's acoustics.
Since I am not an audio guy per se, do you think I would have better results with the cameras internal stereo microphone, or my Azden SGM-PDII shotgun microphone? When I use the shotgun microphone I always plug it into XLR 2 and sum mono.
Just curious what anyone thinks.
Also, I plan on recording at 720p30 with Barry's low-light setting. This recording will not be produced or anything, more or less just to see how well it will perform in the low-light and see how 720p30 will look.
Also wanted to add if it is too dark to white balance, which preset level would you recommend?
 
Honestly, neither.

You most likely will not be happy with either result. On cam is a little better, since any panning with a shot gun will change the audio.

I always recommend connecting to the mixing board with XLR's. If that's not do-able an audio recorder can be setup to record and dub in later. Record 1 channel of the board and the other with the shotgun (off the camera) and around the middle of the room. Then you have a good mix and the live crowd...
 
I should have mentioned that. The only microphones are a stereo pair on SM81's over the choir, feeding their mixer which is behind the altar. Not really practical for me to run a 100 foot XLR back to the camera just to pick up the choir microphones.
Good point about the audio changing during panning. Internal microphone I guess it is.
 
Are their speakers?

I would try to get a shotgun away from the cam, closer to a speaker (or stage) and the on cam mic as a backup as your 2 channels.
 
Here is a concert I recorded with a Rode NTG1 in the back of the place.

http://www.vimeo.com/4758404

By the time sound gets to the back of the room there is much more reverberation and frequency masking - making the audio sound like crap IMO.
 
Yeah there are speakers.......about 60 feet in the air. Maybe I could run a cable and put the shotgun closer to the stage. Didn't think about using both the shotgun and internal microphone. Is that possible? Plug the shotgun into XLR1 and set channel two on camera to internal microphone? Or is there a better way to do it.
 
Would I only be recording one mono (right) channel of internal microphone audio then if that's how I set it up?
 
Yes. But in reality you wont be recording anything that is stereo so you are not loosing anything.

You are better off having 2 different sources of your audio, because 1 is going to be better than the other. Then in post - set the one you like as the audio for your video (playing on R and L).
 
Good point. I guess the only way to get stereo would be to use the internal mic on both channels. Well, I'll try out your suggestion, if I can get the shotgun close enough, and then copy the better track to the opposite channel in FCP and call it a wrap.
 
I'd considering micing the speakers (or atleast getting as close as possible). You're not tied into the same system generating the audio coming out of the speakers, so feedback isn't possible. It's really no different then micing a guitar or bass amp. That is as long as they're micing everything on stage and running everything through the PA system.
 
I have a DVX not the HMC but I can't imagine a decent shotgun mic like yours producing a lower quality audio than the built in cam.

Here is a gig I shot with my Rode NTG2:

http://www.vimeo.com/7320270

There are 2 cams but the mic used on the vid was recorded from the wide shot cam (my cam with the Rode). The sound board was all the way at the back and knowing it's a rock concert and that everything was going to be super loud and that my Rode can handle it there was no way that I was gonna place my cam at the back with the sound board guy for direct in to compromise video quality.

If you have no choice but to use on camera audio I suggest placing the camera at the front of the church - certainly in front of the audience. You will get better audio as well as better video. Even at the front you are not going to be panning at a range more than 45 degrees and its not going to produce noticeable different audio. If you place your camera at the back I doubt you will be panning much.
 
Shotgun on a stand as above. Shotgun on the cam for wild sound on the other channel.

Or two mics on stands.
 
I wouldn't recommend a shotgun mics on camera for concerts at the back too. I'd rather stick to the onboard mic.

Since the performance is amplified by the stage speakers you'd have to really watch out for the audio levels and sound distortion can be expected since it does happen sometimes with a condenser mic. But since you are at the back and not facing around a personal performer stage monitor (if they have any) I think you won't be experiencing that "pop" sound effect.

If you will be doing this more often, I'd recommend an early Christmas present by getting a Zoom H4N for back up. Just incase the audio turns out bad. :)
 
We do quite a lot of short music shoots for the web / handhelds. We seldom have the opportunity to patch into a board (if there even is one). We shoot in bars, concert halls, churches, outdoors, etc.

We generally shoot with DVX100B's.

We use one channel from the camera and the other using a wireless on a stand that's more or less on the opposite side of the room from the camera mic.

One of the most common compliments we get is about the surprisingly good audio quality.

Since the gear is all run on batteries rather than AC, we can be up and running in minutes, then packed and gone between sets.

- G
 
justFRED said:
We do quite a lot of short music shoots for the web / handhelds. We seldom have the opportunity to patch into a board (if there even is one). We shoot in bars, concert halls, churches, outdoors, etc.

We generally shoot with DVX100B's.

We use one channel from the camera and the other using a wireless on a stand that's more or less on the opposite side of the room from the camera mic.

One of the most common compliments we get is about the surprisingly good audio quality.

Since the gear is all run on batteries rather than AC, we can be up and running in minutes, then packed and gone between sets.

- G
Click to expand...

So you have audio from completely polar opposite places mixing together later on? Very cool. And yeah.. getting the direct line from the mixer is something that seldom happens unfortunately.

:bath:
 
abeas said:
My girlfriend is recording me this weekend playing drum set and timpani for a concert at a church. The ensemble consists of a full choir, horn section, string section, digital piano and electric bass. She will be positioned at the back of the church; I know no idea of the church's acoustics.
Since I am not an audio guy per se, do you think I would have better results with the cameras internal stereo microphone, or my Azden SGM-PDII shotgun microphone? When I use the shotgun microphone I always plug it into XLR 2 and sum mono.
Just curious what anyone thinks.
Also, I plan on recording at 720p30 with Barry's low-light setting. This recording will not be produced or anything, more or less just to see how well it will perform in the low-light and see how 720p30 will look.
Also wanted to add if it is too dark to white balance, which preset level would you recommend?
Click to expand...
I have shot live rock music a number of times over the years. One of the most disappointing times was back around 1996. The footage LOOKED great, but it SOUNDED terrible, because I didn't use microphones that were suitable for loud music. The microphones did a great job capturing voices and other normal volume audio, but they were overloaded by the volume of a loud rock band. I was sorry back then I didn't make arrangements to patch into the sound board or had more suitable microphones. It was a shame that what could have been a fantastic video was marred by distorted audio.

If your camera has a stereo mini-plug input, I highly recommend the Sony ECM-MS957 stereo mic for recording live music. For the past 10 years, I have used my ECM-MS957 for just about every situation, including live music, and usually got good results. Of all the microphones I have owned, that is my favorite. I paid about $250 for it, but you can get one for just under $200 now.
 
The mics over the choir are really the only mics? Are they positioned to more or less pick up everything? And, does this mean the only sound coming out of the speakers is the choir?

If you have a chance, during a rehearsal, try to llisten to what's picked up by the choir mics and what you get from any of the abovementioned techniques from the back of the room, and see which sounds better. Running 100' of XLR cable to the mixer is really not that big a deal if it gets you a much better result.

Otherwise, get the shotgun off the camera and place it somewhere where it will pick up a good balance. Or better yet... find some other mics with a wider pickup pattern somewhere around the church, and ask to use those.... then place THEM somewhere off-camera where they'll pick up a good balance. There's often a lot of borrowable stuff around churches...

-B
 
Shotgun mic in one channel, cam mic on the other AND something like a minidisc recorder (really cheap from e-bay now!) plugged in to the soundboard behind the altar should do the trick. Then you can mix at will in post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top