intermediate codec/lossless codecs

A

arrestthisman

Well-known member
Hello all, I'm very close to working on a project with a lot of VFX work. We're going to use motion, but mostly Shake and Jitter. (Jitter is AMAZING). I need to pick a lossless codec for the VFX workflow. We used to use TIFF sequences, but with the options out there now I'd like to refine it and take advantage of newer options.

The source material is all DVCPRO HD 1080PA. All from our beloved HVX200s. I want to make sure DVCPRO HD material recompresses no more than 3 times (which is when it begins to degrade IMHO). So, timeline, export, re-import, final out. That's 4, and if I can eliminate the export from the timeline in DVCPRO HD I'll sleep better at night :).

I came across microcosm some time ago and thought it might make a good addition to the stable, especially for this purpose. (I don't want to use quicktime ref files because Jitter can have some problems with it sometimes.) I've also seen CineForm, which is nice. Then on studiodaily.com, they talked about editing HD in ultra-high bitrate H.264, which they consider virtually lossless at the right bitrate. But isn't H.264 a long GOP codec?

Then I was exporting a file today and saw JPEG 2000 in the codecs of quicktime's options. I'd never noticed it before and tried exporting a clip at the highest quality possible. It came out very nice, and JPEG 2000 is supposed to have an option for lossless encoding. Would this be a good option. Also, I'm under the impression that it is intra-frame.

Essentially I'd just like to get a feeling for what people are using in leu of uncompressed. I tried to find a comparitive list on google without much success. Pros and cons, etc. They seem like they're all good options.

Also, and this is just out of curiosity, what would be a good online codec for when Hydra hits us?

Thanks for any and all help/opinions out there!
 
Thnks sebastian, but I already picked a solution.

I bought sheervideo during the NAB discount.

I love it. It's output is almost as small as Microcosm, but it's so fast it's insane, and it seems made for the mac platform, which I've just switched to. Worst case, 80$ down the drain, but I now how have 5 editing bays (1 mostly for compositing), all Mac except one PC/AVID. Sheervideo just made the most sense.

It's not the most stable in the world, but the speed, and the quality are truely lossless. I like it much better than cineform, which I find confusing since there are so many iterations. If I were on PC it would be different cineform would be worth the money, but... not now.

I'm geting 1080p/24p full raster at under 30mb/sec lossless, full-frame playback off of an external usb raid. (more like 22-25mb).

I don't care about wavelet versus DCT, etc. the final image is what REALLY counts.

I also use Avid DNxHD, since it's multi-platform, free, works extremely well, even with FCP... actually it works with practically every NLE WIN/MAC. The quality is fantastic, not as good as sheervideo, and it needs ALOT of processing power, but for a true compressed codec it goes through recompression with stride.

Actually I think DVCPRO HD isn't too bad either. There's something like a 7% quality loss after 5 generations, and not much more after that up to 15 generations. The first 3 recompressions lose 4%, so once you recompress you lose SOME detail, and that loss is not linear, so you can keep recompressing without much more.

One note, I just read a tech note that cineform posted about the HVX200. Man either they have a horrible research team, made extreme typos, or are outright lying about the resolution about the camera. They claim the CCDs AFTER PIXEL SHIFT only bring in 1200 x 702 pixels. Of course like all good owners we are aware that the real number is 14?? x 810. This is just plain old unacceptable, and it makes the rest of their "TECH NOTES" come in to question. We may be dealing with a very shady company. This is not to say their products are bad in any way. I used their HDV/Vegas codec. It's plenty good. But outputting tech docs without truthful info is bad business, and disingenuous.

Barry: You might want to call them out on this!
 
Probably I shouldn't post a new topic but I was thinking that maybe are other people outhere wich are focused on fastest lossles codecs.
It would be really nice it you can make a test/comparison between the speed of SheerVideo and Hufyuv.
 
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