Insurance?

S

scottfs

Well-known member
A film that I'm supposed to work on has run into a snag. The insurance quote is quite high for a five day shoot (40 minute film). There are no car chases, stunts, explosions or anything like that. What are people's experiences with insurance? I've shot several films and never bothered with insurance. (Though they were low-keyed oral history type films.)
 
If you're renting equipment you'll need it. Lots of locations require you provide a certificate to cover their property. Personally I think if you have any kind of budget you're a fool to skip it. I think we paid a bit over $1000 for our 4 day short. Had a horse but no "stunts".
 
scottfs said:
A film that I'm supposed to work on has run into a snag. The insurance quote is quite high for a five day shoot (40 minute film). There are no car chases, stunts, explosions or anything like that. What are people's experiences with insurance? I've shot several films and never bothered with insurance. (Though they were low-keyed oral history type films.)
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It's like a parachute ... it's better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it. If you're the one responsible for such things, you owe a moral obligation to the people working on the film to protect them from accident and injury and you owe it to the people who allow you onto their property to indemnify them against damage you might cause.
 
This is for liability only. The cheapest was $4,000 for the five days. Equipment is the property of the director, director of photography, sound man (me) and others. The film is a family drama, with zero stunts, zero horses, not even a car driving.

It's nice to have, but that's a lot of money for a $1,000 budget (other than insurance). It's that this country is sue-happy, and lawyers are advertising for clients all the time on the boob tube.

Sad. Now the movie may never get made. Surprising any small films are ever made.
 
Steve House said:
... If you're the one responsible for such things, you owe a moral obligation to the people working on the film to protect them from accident and injury and you owe it to the people who allow you onto their property to indemnify them against damage you might cause.
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Idemnify? Are you a lawyer? Then it fits.

We had permission to shoot dialog on this person's property. What damage could we cause? Moving some gravel around on the driveway? Breathing in his precious and irreplaceable oxygen? Sorry, you're over-reacting. You must be a lawyer.

Aided and abetted by ambulance chasers, this country is sue happy and wants something for nothing.

I had a tenant a while back who was 22 years old. He 'hurt his back' at his job, and was on total disability. It was better than the lottery! This high-school dropout went out and bought a nice, brand-new Bayliner, and took it out on the river every day. He helped me unload bags of concrete on one occasion.

Happiest guy I ever met. And why not? He was looking forward to a lifetime income with zero effort.

If someone comes to my house, gets drunk, is it my responsibility if he hurts someone? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Oh, that's right. There is NO SUCH THING any more.

Lawyers are cleaning up suing anything that moves.

Oh well, the world doesn't need another 10-12 employed people. We're so over-populated with jobs now, can't have more jobs!
 
Done ranting now? You points don't change the fact that a responsible production will insure the people they bring together for a film. If you rent anything for the film most likely they'll require insurance. That has nothing to do with being sue-happy. Damage happens all the time, sometimes its uncontrollable.
 
No equipment is rented. This is a writer-director who is trying to film a short with a zero budget (probably only budget is food). He looked into insurance and was shocked to find it's about $1,000 a day.
 
Who was that through? Our coverage through Truman VanDyke was 1/4 of what you're quoting. And Fractured Atlas has policies that are even cheaper.
 
Imagine a light stand with an hot incandescent lamp falling onto an actor, burning him severely. Or see the other recent thread in this same forum about the camera jib that fell onto audience members at a music festival. If you're the filmmaker, you are both legally and morally responsible for making the people injured whole again. Doesn't take a lawyer to know that and no, I ain't one of those. You need to be responsible for the consequences of your actions and the outcomes of situations that you create.
 
scottfs said:
This is for liability only. The cheapest was $4,000 for the five days. Equipment is the property of the director, director of photography, sound man (me) and others. The film is a family drama, with zero stunts, zero horses, not even a car driving.

It's nice to have, but that's a lot of money for a $1,000 budget (other than insurance). It's that this country is sue-happy, and lawyers are advertising for clients all the time on the boob tube.

Sad. Now the movie may never get made. Surprising any small films are ever made.
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Something is seriously wrong here.

We did a 20 day shoot which covered from June 19 until August 3, with stunts involving guns, car rigs, club scenes, rented equipement, total was a little under $7k.

With regard to your question, I would always err on the side of getting film insurance. You can't even get film permits in NYC without having insurance. If you're doing a very small production where everyone is volunteering their time, then sure, I'd say go for it. But if even one check is being cut to someone, if one member of the team is coming on board for a paid gid and you had to audition actors. If you are using someone elses property other than your own, even if a buddy lends you his car, you better get that insurance.

My friends loaned me their homes, their cars, shoot, one even lent me his daughter for my shoot. Best believe I walked around with that insurance certificate with my director's viewfinder and my copy of the shooting script. I kept copies in every vehicle used whether a show car or transport vehicle, and had one at every location we used. I can't stress the need for insurance enough, especially if this is going to be a moderate to big production.
 
I just insured my owned gear, with a rider for rental gear, and I asked my agent about full production insurance and she told me to expect to pay 1 to 2% of the total production budget. I then asked her about uber low budget movies and what that would cost. She paused and repeated that it would be 1 to 2% of the budget. I really got the feeling, from her response, that with a very low budget flick they would write a policy, but, god forbid, something happens, there would be a fight to get the insurance company to pay. I also think that $1000 in insurance, for a very low budget flick may sound like a lot, but it beats having to turn your house over to an extra who worked one day on your film and fell and hurt themselves.
 
Here are a few ideas for you. Bare in mind, I didn't write the rules, but have figured out how to live within them. If you are going to be in business, like it or not, you need to protect yourself; Do you own a house? Do you have a retirement account or a college fund for your child? How would you feel if YOUR crane crashed on a actor and they had a big medical bill or worse, and you had no way to pay your way out of a situation? You can gripe about the sue happy society we live in, but accidents do happen, and one of them might even be YOUR fault.

You can obtain a yearly 1mil general liability policy for a one man production company for around $1000/yr. This may vary somewhat by your experience in business and location. This will cover things like damage to the property you are shooting on and attractive nuisance issues. If you have this, your agent can issue a certificate of additional insured to the property owner, which is what is usually desired-required. GL coverage will not cover people working for you. Sub-Contractors are for the most part, responsible for themselves, unless you have a negligent situation. But those subs need to be a bonafide business with things like a business license, tax filings etc. It is good if your subs can supply you with a similar certificate in case THEY cause a problem on YOUR set. This may be required by your own carrier.

Anyone who isn't a bonafide business is usually your employee whether you think so or not, even free help, and you become responsible for workers comp and possibly; social security and income tax withholding. Assuming you are already paying these people, you can hire them through a temp service like Labor Ready. Technically, the crew becomes Labor Ready employees and they (LR) take care of the workers comp and taxes, effectively taking all the payroll responsability, and worker liability away from you. They will charge you a couple bucks per hour worked for the service in addition the cost of the employee, but it completely eliminates the need for you to run a payroll and all the pain that goes with it.

I realize that all of this is a tough pill for a low budget film maker, but at some point you must decide if this is a business, or a totally for fun only effort. If it is the latter, you need to limit your exposure to situations where you become responsible for peoples property and health.

I am not a lawyer, but have been in business for 25+ years, so check the facts man.

Grant
 
scottfs said:
A film that I'm supposed to work on has run into a snag. The insurance quote is quite high for a five day shoot (40 minute film). There are no car chases, stunts, explosions or anything like that. What are people's experiences with insurance? I've shot several films and never bothered with insurance. (Though they were low-keyed oral history type films.)
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I'm paying under a thousand bucks for a full year term of film liability coverage from fractured atlas.
 
Insurance is the good way to avoid the the problem of the risk.
Actually the most of the business are totally rely on the insurance to safe the capital.
 
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