"Industry Standard" On Location Audio Tools? What are they?

R

Robertofish

Active member
So due to a recent budget increase from a big contract my company got, we are looking to get Industry Standard sound equipment, and are not concerned that much on the price range, we want the best of the best, and I was wondering what those are, we are basically looking for anything and everything needed or potentially needed to do on location sound and post audio, heres a list, of stuff we are looking at, if we need anything else feel free to add to it!

Boom Mics whatever is used in the professional world, if we have to get more then 1 thats fine to!
Lavs(I hear its the Lectrosonics lav thats all the buzz now a days)
Recorders preferably with SMPTE time code, but if quality is better on something else thats fine to!
Field Mixers
Headphones
Any cables we need(although most of the time cables are pretty similar in quality)

We are also looking at post sound and audio, right now we run all of our edit bays in Final Cut 7, we are not considering switching for another good while, but we would like to know what kind of equipment is needed for post audio!

Software
Hardware etc

What are we shooting on? Due to the type of things we do, the Blackmagic Design 4k Camera(when it comes out) and the 2.5k are our camera of choice, we will be shooting in both 4k and hd depending on output for each project but want the best quality sound possible!

Let me know what your thoughts are remember we are going for the best quality sound possible, and are willing to spend whatever it takes to get that!
 
What kinds of shoots are you doing? Industrials? Commercials? Episodics? Feature films? That is going to greatly impact the type of gear you get.

Do you want a surround mix or just a stereo mix? Do you already have an audio edit room built?

I could give you a list of gear to cover everything from production through post that could go over $200K (on the low side), but that amount can drastically change based on what your needs really are.
 
Before you plunk down a pretty penny on the best gear out there... do you have anyone there who actually knows how to use the equipment on-location? Do you have someone who is skilled at audio post? Do you have a proper space to set up your audio post suite with ample and well-designed acoustic treatment?
 
A truckload of the best/most expensive gear on the planet will not sound very good without skilled operators.
 
We have people who know on location audio, and if they are not skilled enough we can always get more skilled people, we have a big budget now, as far as what we are actually filming, we will be filming all of the above, is there a particular list for each specific area of film, or is it generally the same,

I ask because, I have to write up a proposal for the next company meeting of the best gear to get, and how much to set aside for it, but like I said we want the best of the best, as far as post production, we don't need anything to crazy I want to mainly focus on getting the good gear for on location audio, and post we can always send it to a different sound studio if need be if we can't cover it in house,

So for on location audio, I did some research and people say to generally stay away from lavs unless of course its an extreme wide shot or something where you cant get the boom in that close, do we still need to look at lavs? Or should we just go with boom, personally I think versatility pays off, because you never know what you need dependent on the situation.

Yes we can also set up an audio suite if need be but I would like to focus mainly on, on location audio as that is what is most important unless by post audio you mean an ADR studio? In which case yes we will need that, I dont think however its necessary to go crazy with post audio, and room set ups, just because at that point its not the equipment that matters as much, at least for editing a lot of pro audio editors I know just use Pro Tools, and a laptop, its not the best thing in the world but it does the job!
 
Okay......................... thats why I am asking here to get more info, so I don't have to hire an audio guy just to tell me what kind of gear to get, plus his opinion would be different then others, so I want to hear other peoples opinions on it as well to get a broader perspective.

I have to put together a list and proposal for the company meeting of the in house audio equipment we will need and later on we will look at getting an audio guy if need be, but right now its just about what equipment we need specifically.
 
Do you know how the audio is going to be routed from the mixer / recorder? Do you have an idea about the amount of talent to be wired up? How many cameras? Video village involved? What are the requirements in post? Etc, etc. All the questioning posts to your original post are valid. The original post is way too vague and frankly without a soundman sitting down with you to get the requirements, even if it is a wide latitude of requirements, you will not get what you want. Asking people for a trophy list of location audio gear is not the same thing as getting the proper equipment for the kind of productions you will be involved in.
 
So what are your sound people telling you? There is nothing worse for an operator than a box being dropped in their lap and being told make it work.
Talk to them, if they are experienced and up with whats in the market place they will make good choices..... If they are not up with whats happening in technology, they aren't the right people for your project.

For example; One company I do work for is building a new OB truck, and was told they had ordered an 'XYZ' 96 channel Digital Audio console (so they have spent some serious $$$$$). Is it what I would have chosen, NO but hey its a LOT better than what could have gone into the truck. Could they have got better value for money.... probably.
 
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No offense intended but if you don't know what location audio gear you want already and you don't have faith in anyone on your audio staff to make that list for you, then you'll end up taking the advice of Internet strangers and/or blogs and you won't have a very good time at your company meeting. It's one thing to have a bunch of money to spend and a company with faith in you to wisely spend it and quite another thing to answer the tough questions a year l8er about why you bought what you bought. Think hard about wanting to own this decision if you don't already have the answers.
 
We do everything from live broadcast, to feature full length films, to short documentaries, and everything in between, the thing is we don't have people just for that, but we want to have it all handled in house, and I need to write up a list of equipment that we should get to handle IT ALL, the thing is we arent really constrained by money so its not a question of what is better for a particular price range, or what will do the job better, for all I care we can get both, there is money, we can spend it however we like, if that gets everything for live sound, and for film sound, and for everything else, thats fine, I just want versatility, a variety of different things, but I want good quality thats why I ask this question, because I can get sound people who know what they are doing, but I need to know the equipment to get them, I'm sorry I am just a little frustrated with this particular forum, everyone seems to ask more questions then they answer on here, and I never get a good actual answer, of what sound kit to get I just get questioned about "Why I don't just ask my audio guy", the thing is if it were that simple I would just do it that way, there is a reason I am asking on this forum, and yes I understand that every situation is different and dependent on the location you are shooting etc, but that all has to do with what kind of budget restraints and restraint on a PER PROJECT BASIS, since we just got money in to buy everything and anything needed to produce great audio, its not a matter of whats good for the situation its a matter of whats good overall for each situation, as in for every possible scenario whats the best audio kit I can buy. Its really that simple, whats the best audio kit if I have to buy 10 different mics then so be it, but I want to know which ones to get.

I dont know, I just see the same set of questions for questions that have budgetary or situational restraints like where the shoot is, what the budget it etc, and I thought it would be simple enough to just ask, disregarding money, whats the best stuff you can get, overall for everything, but I guess its not that simple.
 
My advice would be to spend a good chunk of that money on a recognized audio consultant. He/she will likely do a needs assessment and make solid purchasing recommendations. Depending on where you are located, I have a solid recommendation of a person who would be happy to help you. I imagine others here could recommend consultants. If you've been doing all the things you say you've been doing, I seriously don't understand why your company would ask you to make this list. Why wouldn't they ask the people who have been doing audio for all of your varied projects? IMO, you don't need an equipment list...you need to hire a gr8 consultant.
 
Call one of the bigger production sound sales places. They deal with this all the time. Give them your budget, and they can give you a quote on gear. I used to do this all the time when I worked at coffey sound. BUT, if I were in your shoes, I'd just use that money to hire a professional who has gear and pay them a fair hourly rate for labor and a fair rate for gear rental. There are lots of very qualified freelancers (that's pretty much every production sound person) who would work for you if the pay is good. It's less stuff for you to worry about.

Let me be honest. I've sold gear to places trying to do the exact same thing you are doing, and they all believe they are doing the smart thing, but in the end, they realize their approach wasn't the best approach. You think "this'll be great! we'll own all of our own gear and we can do what we want when we want!". The reality is productions don't work that way. IF you have a qualified person on staff to be your production sound person, they will draw a considerable salary, otherwise they will just want to stay freelance. Same with a post production person. I know what you are thinking "we can have the same person do both". No. Don't do that. If you have one person try to manage it all they will get overwhelmed. I've seen it a bunch of times. There are very few people who have the expertise for both production and post production sound.


Now...having said all that...if you get a quote on gear from a sales place, and you still have questions, I'd be more than happy to help, but like I said, your best bet is to talk with one of the many places that sell production sound gear to start. If you have questions on who to buy from, you and PM me, or others can chime in here.
 
I guess I should be more specific with my questions, and I am sorry to everyone I got a little frustrated earlier as you may have been able to tell, but you all bring up valid points that can't be ignored, ideally I was just looking for a "dream team" of such, the things to get and go from there, will give all the specifics I can right now

Specifics
Cameras
Blackmagic 4k Production Camera(We should be getting this through sponsorships via Blackmagic themselves but no official word yet) or waiting till they come out and purchasing them then!

Post Audio
Final Cut 7/Studio 3 or Studio as its called nowadays, also Pro Tools upgraded as the new ones come out, and Logic Studio

Hardware: Right now we are on simple enough Mac Pros, 8 core 2.93ghz, running 3gb graphics cards, 2x30 inch cinema displays each, 32gbs of ram, 512GB solid state ssd
We will be getting Blackmagic Multidocks for quick offloading of pro res and cinema dng files off of the ssds from the blackmagic
Also a 64TB Quad Core Nas Server running through 10GBE lan card, as a scratch disk for FCP

Lighting: Not that it matters for this, looks like for our show shot in the studio we are looking and kinoflo celebs 4 of them to be purchased for a flat lighting leno effect look, plus SoCanLand LED lights to be purchased later for field production and everything else that needs portable lights(we will also have batteries for these lights as well)
Monitors: Ikan 8.9inch HDSDI Monitor with Panasonic CGA-D54 Battery plate

Now as for sound, since the pre amps on our camera of choice the BMC have been thought of as "Not Industry Grade" as opposed to something like a Panasonic HPX500(another camera we were looking at but decided to go with BMC) that brings me to the next point

I guess ill split it into sections
For Movie/Short film making, for big screen and internet

Best Shotgun?
Best HyperCardiod?
Best Lav(I would rather not use one unless we have to but would like to have them on hand)
Best Field Mixer?
Best Field Recorder?
Boompole? Or does it not matter to much what you get

Also how many of each, I did some research and listened to lav vs boom, I have to be honest boom sounds way better I know lav has its place in the industry but not as much for good full sounding audio and voices. But still if I have to get multiple booms that is fine, as long as the quality is the fullest it can be we are good to go!

For the actual in house show, produced at our studio, I assume the best thing to do would be have lavs because a lot of the shots will be long shots and so forth and it is "acceptable" to have lavs on speakers and hosts, so I guess its the same question

For Interviews, I assume it would be a handheld mic, something like a SM58, or is there something better?

As for post audio, I have no idea here, mixer boards? or anything else we can look at would be great plus maybe an ADR booth as we will need to get one at some point!

If you have any more questions on specifics let me know, cause I want to keep this post as short as possible but I would like to see what equipment is needed!

Remember money is not the issue its quality, I want to get the best possible quality, and yes I do know 80% of field audio is how you use it and not the equipment, but still I would rather spend some extra money to get good equipment and then hire a good boom op and be good to go then not spend the money, which I have and is not an issue, so its not a matter of what for a budgetary issue like which or what is better for the price or how to build a DIY kit, its what do I need to pursue Audio as a whole!
 
Robertofish said:
Remember money is not the issue its quality, I want to get the best possible quality
Click to expand...

This is honestly something you don't want to do for a business, have strangers on an Internet forum select the gear which your crew will be using, without knowing the full picture. If you are really serious about this, you need to hire a consultant who will sit down and work hand in hand with you from the planning stage to setup and use. And work within your budget to provide the professional tools you truly need. I don't useually pimp myself on the forums here, but if you were so inclined, drop me a message. I have nearly 40 years experience, and don't offer consultation services very often now because I'm just too darn bussy. If you don't contact me, do yourself a favor and please contact a consultant. Like you said... Money is not an issue!
 
It's not making much sense to me when I hear you are buying four BMCPC4K cameras for your "studio". They have no timecode support, no genlock, no power zoom lenses (ENG) and you don't mention a switcher. Are you going to approach all of your productions with the "A, B, C and D" cameras methodology? If you are doing any run and gun documentary work, you won't like the ergonomics of the camera at all. Also, after w8ing nearly a year on a BMCC-EF before giving it up, I can safely say that you shouldn't count on having your four cameras in August. If you have unlimited funding, why on Earth did you opt for four $4,000.00 cameras? Why not three or four Alexas?

I don't know where you got your dislike of wireless lavs but I wouldn't be without my precious Lectrosonics. Boom everything? Again, it doesn't make sense to me.
 
Robertofish said:
So due to a recent budget increase from a big contract my company got, we are looking to get Industry Standard sound equipment, and are not concerned that much on the price range, we want the best of the best, and I was wondering what those are, we are basically looking for anything and everything needed or potentially needed to do on location sound and post audio, heres a list, of stuff we are looking at, if we need anything else feel free to add to it!

Boom Mics whatever is used in the professional world, if we have to get more then 1 thats fine to!
Lavs(I hear its the Lectrosonics lav thats all the buzz now a days)
Recorders preferably with SMPTE time code, but if quality is better on something else thats fine to!
Field Mixers
Headphones
Any cables we need(although most of the time cables are pretty similar in quality)

We are also looking at post sound and audio, right now we run all of our edit bays in Final Cut 7, we are not considering switching for another good while, but we would like to know what kind of equipment is needed for post audio!

Software
Hardware etc

What are we shooting on? Due to the type of things we do, the Blackmagic Design 4k Camera(when it comes out) and the 2.5k are our camera of choice, we will be shooting in both 4k and hd depending on output for each project but want the best quality sound possible!

Let me know what your thoughts are remember we are going for the best quality sound possible, and are willing to spend whatever it takes to get that!
Click to expand...

OK.....

Field recorders:-
Aaton Cantar - the most expensive and usid mainly on film shoots
Nagre VI - large but not heavy, runs cool
AETA 4MinX - smaller and lightweight, very high quality audio. Relatively new to the recorder market but well established (has beed said AETA are "Sonosax quality")
All above are top audio quality and are listed "most expensive first"

Sound Devices 788T - small and portable but runs hot, not quite as high quality audio as the above, but much better than anything below them.

Mixers:-
Sonosax are the best bar none, IMHO, but you pay for it.
Otherwise, Sound Devices or Audio Developments IMHO

Monitoring Headphones:-
Sennheiser HD 25-1 II (no contest)

Microphones:-
Sennheiser MKH series are the indstry standard and work well even in damp conditions as they are RF condensers.
Nowadays I would go with the MKH 8060 as the best short gun, but the whole MKH 8000 series is excellent.
The Schoeps SuperCMIT is an AES42 digital microphone with digital processing that virtually eliminates the rear out-uf-phase lobe. This will plug directly into the AETA 4MinX or SD 788T - with other recorders you will need an adaptor.
LDC for voiceover work, I would put the Gefell M930 in the top spot here.

The top microphone manufacturers, IMHO, are (alphabetically):- DPA, Gefell, Neumann, Schoeps & Sennheiser (only Sennheiser MKH are RF condensers) and you can rely on any mic. by any of these manufacturers and are all pretty equal in quality - take your pick.

Cables:-
Use star-quad (those with a proper tight helical twist) or balanced AES cable for the SuperCMIT (this can also be used for analogue microphones).

Monitors:
ME Geithain, ATC, Harbeth, PMC, Neumann/K+H.
For small high quality location monitors I use the Geithain RL906 (these had a superb review in Sound On Sound last November and some were recently bought by CNN in London), though the cheaper Neuman KH120A are OK.

For the record, my own kit includes boh the Nagra VI and AETA 4MinX, HD 25-1 headphones, a large selection of microphones from Sennheiser, Neumann, Gefell, Calrec, AKG and Beyer, Geithain RL906 monitors (as well as Harbeth M30A and K+H O110D monitors).

I hope this helps.
 
Robertofish said:
We are also looking at post sound and audio, right now we run all of our edit bays in Final Cut 7, we are not considering switching for another good while, but we would like to know what kind of equipment is needed for post audio!

Software
Hardware etc
Click to expand...

For your Final Cut 7 edit bays, get Automatic Duck Pro Export to interface with post sound editors a lot better. It's free.

Industry standard for post audio software, at least in the U.S., is Avid's Pro Tools software. PT10 is king right now. PT11 will be released soon.

Hardware ultimately depends on your budget. Are you building entire rooms for post sound editors? With PT10, you do not need to use Avid specific hardware, but that ultimately depends on what format you'll be mixing in and where is the mix going to ... 5.1 surround? 7.1 surround? Stereo? Theatrical release? Web release? That all folds into the formula.
 
I know nothing about sound, but the kit I see most often is:

Sound devices 722 mixer or better
Sennheiser MKH-416 shotgun
Schoeps CMC641
Carbon fiber boom pole
Sennheiser G3 lavs or better (generally people prefer higher end than this)

I'd find a good sound guy who lacks gear and buy this with him, giving him the option for him to subrent. Whoever you hire currently and like, even. That way you get his expertise and can hire him with your own gear at a low rate and you can make an addition income on whatever you book. But this kit will cover most of the bases.
 
Most production sound mixers have their own gear and prefer to work with it. (and get rental fees as well)
I would heed Dave's advice.
Good Luck.
Your gonna need it
 
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