In Retrospect what were the essential bits for actual F3 owners

A

Andrew Stone

Veteran
For those of you who have been living with your F3 for anywhere from a few days to a few weeks, now that you have done some field use, I am curious what you now see as essential kit to make yourself functional on set or a shoot with typical demands in the stuff you shoot.

So you have the F3 body what else do you see as a non-negotiable parts of the camera package to go out and do your job on a typical shoot. If you are going to include "nice to haves" split that out as a secondary list.

Feel free to list things you THOUGHT you needed but now wish you had placed the $$$ elsewhere.
 
I shot 2 tests using only the camera and some sticks. The LCD is totally acceptable with peaking and overall decent enough color information and zebra information to get the job done.

I did my first industrial with it yesterday and I had it hooked up to a nanoflash, matte box, 2 7 in monitors, a 17 in panasonic broadcast monitor, matte box, follow focus, dolly, etc etc and of course I felt more confident that the image I was getting was going to look the same when the editor took it into Final Cut Pro, but really in a few days I'm about to do another commercial job on a boat out in the Gulf of Mexico and I'm primarily going to just use the lcd again with a Hoodman thingy over it and I'm going to trust that peaking and the zebras and I will still feel confident.
 
Mattebox, follow focus, rails. Mandatory. With pl glass it just can't be any other way.

I prefer my anton bauer battery system, but the one sony battery I have is great for futzing around or the brief hand held stolen shot.

I kind of feel a smallHD/TVlogic is mandatory. False color is essential, but built in zebras will do in a pinch.

Would kill for a simpler T4 zoom that isn't 15lbs.
 
TimurCivan said:
Mattebox, follow focus, rails. Mandatory. With pl glass it just can't be any other way.

I prefer my anton bauer battery system, but the one sony battery I have is great for futzing around or the brief hand held stolen shot.

I kind of feel a smallHD/TVlogic is mandatory. False color is essential, but built in zebras will do in a pinch.

Would kill for a simpler T4 zoom that isn't 15lbs.
Click to expand...

Andrew

After a month with it and over a dozen days of shooting from commercials to corporates I think there are a few different paths.

With Still lenses, matte box, lots of flares. I love my DP6, but will also use my Panasonic 7.9 inch, follow focus, and the Antons off the 4 pin can go most of the day. Rail system. I'm using Zacuto, but 3rd parties are working on F3 specific designs.

I put all my accessories in one bag and have been building specific set ups depending on the shoot. I had a handheld run and gun web spot in Montreal last week for a bank that worried me. I built a hand held set up with my zacuto gear and shoulder pad, Anton Bauer's on the red rock cheese plate off the back and a Cineroid EVF for the viewfinder. I went HDMI off the camera, but have tested the Nanoflash converting the HDSDI to HDMI which works well. We kept it light with the Tokina 24-70, but would switch in the Tokina 11-16, or Nikon and Zeiss ZF primes, geared with Zip gears or custom Petroff gears (on the Zeiss) and using a Chrosziel follow focus with a reverse gear. Now I know some have questioned the sharpness of the Cineroid, but with the peaking on, it was very sharp and had no problem focusing. I had it attached to a Z arm, which also worried me on if it would move, but we went to over 7 locations in 7 hours and my cam asst and I were very happy on how the whole rig held together.

a pic. http://www.flickr.com/photos/56612561@N06/5518376446/

I'm waiting for my new cine lenses, and just got a new Chrosziel matte box. I think its one of those things that you built a configuration depending on the needs of each shoot. I know I've had to look at all the different shoots and how to approach them. From internal recording to the Nanoflash, and Nikon mounted primes to those zooms. I think its a work in progress.
 
Nigel A said:
...there are a few different paths.

With Still lenses, matte box, lots of flares...will also use my Panasonic 7.9 inch, FF, and Antons. Rail system & Zacuto...

...All my accessories in one bag, been building specific set ups. I built a hand held set up with my zacuto gear and shoulder pad, Anton Bauer's on the red rock cheese plate off the back and a Cineroid EVF & nanoFlash. We kept it light with the Tokina 24-70 or 11-16, or Nikon and Zeiss ZF primes, geared with Zip gears or custom Petroff gears (on the Zeiss) and using a Chrosziel follow focus with a reverse gear. Now I know some have questioned the sharpness of the Cineroid, but with the peaking on, it was very sharp and had no problem focusing. I had it attached to a Z arm, which also worried me.

I'm waiting for my new cine lenses, and just got a new Chrosziel matte box. I think its one of those things that you built a configuration depending on the needs of each shoot. I know I've had to look at all the different shoots and how to approach them. From internal recording to the Nanoflash, and Nikon mounted primes to those zooms. I think its a work in progress.
Click to expand...

Thank you all for your considered responses. Quite helpful.

I like most people are in a quandry about a focusing solution, I have the added dimension of Steadicam needs so I am pulled in a bunch of different directions on a monitor (and follow focus stuff). I should get a monitor with daylight viewability and preferably with a decent set of software based scopes that can be amped up for use with colour charts. This does raise the cost proposition from 1500 dollar solution to a 2 to 6 grand solution depending on the feature set (scopes only available on this kind of monitor above 3 grand). Not sure what I am going to do on that front as I have lenses to purchase. Maybe I should get a Cineroid and hang back on a monitor purchase. In any event I am going to try and not put myself in a shooting situation where I need a monitor for an extended period of time until NAB passes. However, right now I am very impressed with the feature set of the TV Logic monitor (see the AF-100 forum thread on the "group buy" if you are interested) which has some scopes built into the unit with a promise to add a 2x gain feature so it will work with color charts with a firmware upgrade in the future.

Like Nigel I am more or less kitted out on the rails and Anton Bauer stuff. I use Zacuto but I wish for others that another player would come on to the market and make stuff that is comparable but at a reasonable price point. I have the Double Mount which is an amazing piece of kit for mounting batts and AKS (accessories) behind the camera but to get a battery mounted when the smoke clears it is 5 bills, whereas the Redrock one is 3.5 (rails device, battery plate and cable).

Lens decision for me has been short listed down to either a Nikon mid-range zoom and/or Zeiss ZF.2s or Zeiss CP.2s or a Red 18-50 and a couple of Red primes. Again my decisions are largely influenced by Steadicam needs so weight and ability to move quickly into a large depth of field range for live work are essential in the decision making process.

We all have our lens preferences. Presently, I am really taken back by the idiosyncrasies of the Zeiss color palette. The way that light falls off in the fleshtones has me really captivated to use them in a lot of the work that I plan on doing for a while. There is something really sumptuous about the way they transition from highlights to midtones. Nigel you mentioned about flaring. Were you experiencing more flaring with photography based lenses than Cine lenses or was the problem universal? I have heard from others that large sensor video cameras, in general, are more susceptible to flaring than ENG cameras. I've got a Chrosziel mattebox and haven't had the requirement for the side wings but I suspect now I will, along with a swingaway adapter of some sort. Here Zacuto seems to actually be the deal in terms of cost/benefit... for once on a swingaway device.

Right now I have a bunch of Nikon primes and a Nikon 17-35 2.8 so economically it would make sense to get the Nikon 24-70 so I have a colour matched set of decent Nikon zooms but I won't drop any money on one till I see how good or bad the barrel distortion and breathing is. I am intrigued by the Tonika's and a couple of Tamaron's (mentioned elsewhere here) for times when you don't want to have expensive glass around (running shots or dirty environments where zooms can get poluted). I am also thinking about CP.2s if I can determine probable rental income from local shooters that I trust but the outlay on everything is sizable and I am a risk averse kind of person when it comes to financing stuff.

I'm also going to have to invest in wireless follow focus gear which will almost certainly be a combination of a digital Bartech set and a Heden motor times 2 or 3. I am sure the people in involved in this thread so far know the cost range of that stuff so I won't even mention it in case some others here think they need it. Let them find out what they are in for by going down that road.
 
Andrew Stone said:
Thank you all for your considered responses. Quite helpful.

I like most people are in a quandry about a focusing solution, I have the added dimension of Steadicam needs so I am pulled in a bunch of different directions on a monitor (and follow focus stuff). I should get a monitor with daylight viewability and preferably with a decent set of software based scopes that can be amped up for use with colour charts. This does raise the cost proposition from 1500 dollar solution to a 2 to 6 grand solution depending on the feature set (scopes only available on this kind of monitor above 3 grand). Not sure what I am going to do on that front as I have lenses to purchase. Maybe I should get a Cineroid and hang back on a monitor purchase. In any event I am going to try and not put myself in a shooting situation where I need a monitor for an extended period of time until NAB passes. However, right now I am very impressed with the feature set of the TV Logic monitor (see the AF-100 forum thread on the "group buy" if you are interested) which has some scopes built into the unit with a promise to add a 2x gain feature so it will work with color charts with a firmware upgrade in the future.

Like Nigel I am more or less kitted out on the rails and Anton Bauer stuff. I use Zacuto but I wish for others that another player would come on to the market and make stuff that is comparable but at a reasonable price point. I have the Double Mount which is an amazing piece of kit for mounting batts and AKS (accessories) behind the camera but to get a battery mounted when the smoke clears it is 5 bills, whereas the Redrock one is 3.5 (rails device, battery plate and cable).

Lens decision for me has been short listed down to either a Nikon mid-range zoom and/or Zeiss ZF.2s or Zeiss CP.2s or a Red 18-50 and a couple of Red primes. Again my decisions are largely influenced by Steadicam needs so weight and ability to move quickly into a large depth of field range for live work are essential in the decision making process.

We all have our lens preferences. Presently, I am really taken back by the idiosyncrasies of the Zeiss color palette. The way that light falls off in the fleshtones has me really captivated to use them in a lot of the work that I plan on doing for a while. There is something really sumptuous about the way they transition from highlights to midtones. Nigel you mentioned about flaring. Were you experiencing more flaring with photography based lenses than Cine lenses or was the problem universal? I have heard from others that large sensor video cameras, in general, are more susceptible to flaring than ENG cameras. I've got a Chrosziel mattebox and haven't had the requirement for the side wings but I suspect now I will, along with a swingaway adapter of some sort. Here Zacuto seems to actually be the deal in terms of cost/benefit... for once on a swingaway device.

Right now I have a bunch of Nikon primes and a Nikon 17-35 2.8 so economically it would make sense to get the Nikon 24-70 so I have a colour matched set of decent Nikon zooms but I won't drop any money on one till I see how good or bad the barrel distortion and breathing is. I am intrigued by the Tonika's and a couple of Tamaron's (mentioned elsewhere here) for times when you don't want to have expensive glass around (running shots or dirty environments where zooms can get poluted). I am also thinking about CP.2s if I can determine probable rental income from local shooters that I trust but the outlay on everything is sizable and I am a risk averse kind of person when it comes to financing stuff.

I'm also going to have to invest in wireless follow focus gear which will almost certainly be a combination of a digital Bartech set and a Heden motor times 2 or 3. I am sure the people in involved in this thread so far know the cost range of that stuff so I won't even mention it in case some others here think they need it. Let them find out what they are in for by going down that road.
Click to expand...

Andrew

There was another thread that addressed the flaring issue with photographic lenses. I know for sure that with my Tokina 24-70 I get a lot of flares. Its also soft at 70 mm at 2.8. My Zeiss ZF primes are very sharp and have to do some more tests with flares. I've been on the zoom the jobs where I had more flaring. I only had the Angenieux Optimo Rouge 30-80 for a couple of days and I didn't remember any real flaring issue. That's the lens I'm seriously considering. I think its a great combo for the F3. Lightweight, Angenieux quality that you can use from small to big jobs. Just the price. I'm getting a Digioptical 18-40 T3 to cover me for the wider stuff and it seems like it would be good for handheld, or possibly Steadicam. I also hear you about size and weight on the steadicam. Once upon a time about 15 years ago I shot steadicam. Good memories...

I got the full Chrosziel 456 complete with side wings and swing away. There are a couple of issuse that the Tokina when used with the Chrosziel follow focus with reverse gear hits the matte box. I actually put my hood on the Tokina so it was longer, and did not get in the way of the follow focus. My Zeiss primes are also a problem in this scenerio. the 85mm is fine, but the 50 and lower are a problem.

The MTF adapter for Nikon mounts works great, but if your using G lenses, like the Tokina 11-16 or the 24-70 that your thinking of, you have iris control, but you will not know what your at. Its just a dial until it looks good on a monitor. On smaller jobs that's fine, but I don't think that would cut it on a bigger production.

For now I think I'm building two different lens packages. Nikon mounted primes and zooms, and 2 cine zooms . I think it will cover me for a wide range of jobs, and then maybe the Pancros.... Its only money:)

On another note, I'm out your way beginning of April shooting in Schelt and Vancouver. I'll be the one shooting beauty shots from the ferry.
 
Yes Nigel, there seems to be an issue with the lens design of the 24-70 lens that issues softness at the far end of the range. Same problem with the Nikon with an MSRP of $1700. Someone shortly after the previous post I made commented on the problems of using "gelded" Nikons, the ones without the physical aperture rings. I doubt I will go that route now. The compromise appears to be even too great for shooting on your own if you want to guage depth of field with a degree of accuracy.

The Angenieux Rouge you mentioned is inexpensive for where it sits on their product shelf. I considered it for a second a couple of months ago but I can get more on the screen by placing money elsewhere at this point. The more I look at things the more the Digioptical or Red branded 18-50mm T3 makes sense.

You mentioned space issues with follow focus gears crashing into the mattebox on particular photo lenses, zeiss and presumably otherwise. This is a point that people should have clear in their minds. This could be a showstopper for some if you can't put a mattebox in front due to the follow focus gearing being in the way.

I had another gander at the Zeiss ZF.2 Nikon mounted lenses. I could see this being an issue for the 50mm but the 35mm and the 21mm look fine unless you had to punch the lens through the mattebox to get rid of vignetting from the mattebox. The 18mm from what I could see would be a problem.

I am going to ask if Andy Shipsides from Abel Cine Tech can try out the ARRI follow focus he has recommeded in the past on the ZF.2's to see if there is gear/mattebox spacing issues with it as well.

Not sure of my schedule in early April yet, however, I will be rolling into NAB Monday night.
 
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The other two lenses I'm thinking of is the Red 50-150. Digioptical had one from B&H but has since been discontinued. The Red is twice the price but still less than the Angenieux. Duclos has their 80-200 (Nikon glass) . I'll have to see how the 18-50 is when I get it. Have seen lots of good comments about it.
 
Yes all those lenses have been very much on my radar as well. The Red 50-150 is available as a "battle tested" version, for less money. I guess it all depends where you intend to place this lens in your gear offerring if you want to go with a refurbed lens. That lens is also between 9 and 10 pounds. I'm gonna have to hit the gym if I was going to fly with that lens!
 
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