Implications of having affordable HD production?

Good points, everyone. Haakon, I think we sort of agree, but we come at it from different angles. I don't discount the importance of good technical skills and production values and I know you don't discount the value of story/idea. We probably just disagree about the level of importance of each side of that issue.

Cheers,

Josh
 
Thanks for the feedback. I just thought the music video played its shortcomings as though they were strengths, using the cheap vibe to comedic effect. If it were REM and directed by Jonze, I'm sure more people would be singing it's praises.

What I was suggesting was more that while HVX cameras may revolutionize the low budget theatrical market. I can tell you that generally making a film is more than having a cheap HD camera. The camera is really the least of your problems. Its a tool, and a small cog in the chain - not a solution to all your production needs - catering, wardrobe, editing facilities, actors, transport, location fees, lighting, sound mixes - etc. I suspect that many people will buy this camera, seeing it as the last obstruction to getting their film made and then....nothing. Its possible to fall in love with the tool not the message. I know this because I've been guilty of it in the past (and frequently the present). It's a form of procrastination.

The costs associated with making a film with production values are prohibitive. I'm not sure the HVX will solve that and those films that transcend it would want to be damn good to get escape velocity enough to make it into a cinema.

My point is HD or betacam or Video 8 - I don't think will make an enormous difference and if a film is good enough it will get a distributor. I believe that were someone to manage to make a "Sideways"with whatever format - it would get a release. "Grain in the shadows" won't make or break it.

"Production values on DV" is great dialogue to throw around but you're competing with hundreds of films a year shot with budget and on film. On top of that trying to get a film into a cinema with unknown actors is an Everest of its own.

HD is not film and will still have many of the problems that one associates with video (that is, reduced exposure latitude, large News-Report style depth-of-field, lower quality optics which will be more apparent on the big screen and so on).

That said " I am NOT drinking any f#*king Merlot!" would still be funny even if the film was made as a mock video diary.

and moreover, even though I'm a film purist, I'll probably buy a HVX anyway.

End of rant. apologies. :engel017:
 
Sorry folks, the HVX will not revolutionize anything. The bar has already been lowered - anyone and everyone can make a movie now. The HVX only makes possible a small bump in super cheap productions so that in the rare instance you see it onscreen, you won't go "ewwwwwww, looks like crap" like you did with Pieces of April and 28 Days Later...

The keys still are and will always be - can you write a film (or find a script) that can keep an audience involved for 90 minutes? Can you organanize yourself and your life to put this script onscreen with enough production value that people take you seriously? (I suppose the HVX could help out a tiny bit here) Can you find distribution for your film? Each one of those bars to hurdle eliminates many, many, many people...

Of course for experimental/porno/weddings etc, the HVX is the shiznit... ;-)
 
I brought up "Praise You" in the first post, alongside "Weapon of Choice". But "Praise You" uses the same low-caliber production quality, so it doesn't serve as an illustrative example nearly as well as "Weapon of Choice". They don't really contrast. "Weapon of Choice" = slick polished production value, "A Million Ways" = no production value at all. That's why they're good to compare & contrast.

Praise You was great for many reasons, not the least of which is that it had a "news" style feel to it, because the security guard comes out and busts them and runs them off, and the camera keeps rolling. Then they sneak back and start performing again anyway (at least, that's how I remember it, it's been years since I've seen it). The only version I could find online was a RealPlayer version, and I just can't handle that much spyware on my system!
 
Not sure what we're arguing here . . . we all seem to be making the same points; however, the HVX200 is revolutionary, IMO, since never has this quality been so low-priced. Here's what it means to ME:

Anyone that saw my zombie short, "Infection," will see the opening credits' driving-in-the-rain-sequence. I "banked" this shot way back in January, when L.A. had a fierce run of rainstorms (it typically rains VERY little in L.A.). I banked a lot of rain footage; however, the footage is so noisy, I refuse to use it. When I first bought my Sony VX1000 (and later, my VX2000, and then my DVX100), I also "banked" tons of beauty shots. I spent a whole lot of time and effort to get those shots (for one L.A. skyline shot, I had to break in to a locked parking structure, drive up ten stories, and steal the shot). But the format, and the camera I used to bank those shots with, sucked. Huge amounts of chroma noise, horribly low resolution (with the Sony 60i cameras), non-widescreen 4:3 imagers, and, of course, (with the exception of the rain footage shot with the DVX100) it's all shot in 60i.

Now, with the upcoming Panasonic HVX200, all the considerable time and effort I am planning to RE-spend getting those beauty shots AGAIN, will at least be preserved at a very high level of quality. Do you know how RARE it is to be able to shoot the Los Angeles skyline just after a rainstorm when the sky is actually blue (not white) and actually has cloud formations? Sunsets, L.A. traffic, airplanes at LAX, emergency vehicles--all these shots will soon be banked for my own personal stock footage library in either DVCPRO50 or DVCPRO-HD thanks to Panasonic's revolutionary HVX200.

And, as in the opening sequence of, "Infection," many of these banked shots can drop in seamlessly to future scripts, and can be used for establishing, mood-setting, and transition shots where needed. That kind of production value is totally gettable over time, and can be an extremely valuable ingredient in upgrading the look of the ultra-low budget film.
 
Now, with the upcoming Panasonic HVX200, all the considerable time and effort I am planning to RE-spend getting those beauty shots AGAIN, will at least be preserved at a very high level of quality. Do you know how RARE it is to be able to shoot the Los Angeles skyline just after a rainstorm when the sky is actually blue (not white) and actually has cloud formations? Sunsets, L.A. traffic, airplanes at LAX, emergency vehicles--all these shots will soon be banked for my own personal stock footage library in either DVCPRO50 or DVCPRO-HD thanks to Panasonic's revolutionary HVX200.

You might even be able to sell some of that footage. You are right to 'bank' it.
 
another implication is that the owners of such portable equipment can travel to, and bring back from, high quality footage from countries outside the US. so it could bring more international culture to a US audience. and that type of media could bring a number of other implications.

an hvx200 in the hands of some kids in RIO, could produce something other than the very violent City of God.
 
I apologize if I'm beating a dead horse... if that's the case, just hit me upside the head and I will be happy to walk away. :thumbsup: I just see lots of interesting points being brought up and I enjoy extrapolating on the ideas...

jamestmather said:
My point is HD or betacam or Video 8 - I don't think will make an enormous difference and if a film is good enough it will get a distributor. I believe that were someone to manage to make a "Sideways"with whatever format - it would get a release. "Grain in the shadows" won't make or break it.
I suppose that depends on the viewer. My goal with filmmaking is to make pieces I'm proud of, that say the things I want to say by painting the most beautiful and visually superior pictures possible that I'm capable of. It's much less important if they rake in $200 million at the box office or have "widespread appeal." Distribution isn't even necessarily a good thing - bad movies make all sorts of money all of the time! I'm sure there are plenty of people rolling in the dough because of it, but I don't aspire to be a part of that.

You can also have great movies that leave something to be desired visually; the best example that comes to mind for me of recent was the film "Crash," which I thought had a really great message and powerful storyline. It was touching and really had a lot of important things to say about our society. The film was so unbelievably grainy, though, (it looks like it was shot at 3200 ASA :shocked:), and though I'm sure someone somewhere will tell you that was all part of the master plan, I can't even sit through a repeat viewing without getting completely distracted and taken out of the moment. So yes, even with amazing films, something as basic as "noise in the shadows" can make a big difference. Or it does for me, anyway. The footage I saw from the HVX at RESFest (and I realize this was completely preliminary, though one would certainly presume it's only going to get better by the release, not worse) looked VERY clean, with lots of latitude and detail in both highlight and shadow areas. It's just a tool, but a better tool than I've currently got, which brings me that much closer to being able to create the images I really want to create.

jamestmather said:
"Production values on DV" is great dialogue to throw around but you're competing with hundreds of films a year shot with budget and on film. On top of that trying to get a film into a cinema with unknown actors is an Everest of its own.
You're right, and that's another reason the HVX is so exciting. It's not DV. It's not film, either (see below), but it's a much bigger step closer to bridging the gap, and although it remains to be seen, it may even prove to be a completely suitable replacement for film on just about anywhere but the big screen. That kind of freedom has never been readily available before; certainly not for the cost.

jamestmather said:
HD is not film.
No, it's not... and thank god for that. Even though it still has many of the problems associated with video (reduced latitude, larger depth of field), it also has numerous advantages (instant retrieval/playback of footage, no costs for stock, developing, or processing, and the ability to actually see exactly WHAT you're shooting WHILE you're shooting - what a concept!) that make it a highly viable alternative. Technology is only improving, and "digital" or "HD" is only getting better. Let's not forget that the highest grossing movie of this year was shot on HD and there are scores more to come (including next year's massive "Superman"). We're on a cusp of great change in the filmmaking industry, and change doesn't always settle well with everyone. But whether or not "digital" takes over entirely (as it has done in the realm of audio and large parts of the still image market), it has unquestionably opened up many doors for those of us who don't have access to millions of dollars with which to make films. Because that technology is getting better (and the HVX is a great case in point), it's an exciting time to be an independent filmmaker.

Josh_Boelter said:
Good points, everyone. Haakon, I think we sort of agree, but we come at it from different angles. I don't discount the importance of good technical skills and production values and I know you don't discount the value of story/idea. We probably just disagree about the level of importance of each side of that issue.

Cheers,

Josh
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right here. And I'm really glad we have a forum to come to where we can look at these things from different angles and discuss them with each other in a civilized manner. It is definitely a fantastic outlet. I suppose my line of thinking is simply that we are filmmakers, and film is a VISUAL medium. While better equipment will not automatically make for better pictures, it does allow for a greater *capacity* in which to be able to improve the quality of those pictures. Maybe I do just approach the medium differently than a lot of people, but if story was really the only thing that mattered to me, I'd be writing books instead. :lipsrseal
 
The implications are huge..

I for one cannot wait for people to start posting high resolution video of their backyards and their swimming pools! My god.. it will be "first HVX Footage" heaven in the few months..

:grin: :beer: :evil:
 
Zig_Zigman said:
so that in the rare instance you see it onscreen, you won't go "ewwwwwww, looks like crap" like you did with Pieces of April and 28 Days Later...

The look of 28 Days Later was deliberate. And I did not hear a single person in the theater complaining about the look.

Some big names and decent size studios are going to try making projects with the HVX200, the way some people like Soderberg did with the XL-1 and some people have done with the DVX100.

Which means that the gap between formats available to 'regular' people and the 'big' filmmakers is decreasing, and will converge to an extent with HD.

Even if it's the poor man's (or woman's) HD it is still going to being liberating for some people. David Lynch could have made Eraser Head in 2 years instead of 5.

And there are many movies shot in 35mm with a budget in the millions that don't have a significant story. And there are many movies shot on 35mm that are frankly, silly, and without any particular redeeming values...just like the stuff that is made on the DVX-100 currently.

Wasn't Manos, The Hands of Fate shot on 35, or at least 16mm?

It's one of those movies that is so bad, that it actually has a comical aspect to it.

You see, already those 'amateurs' making their mini-dv movies have equalled the
worst movies made by the studios.

So there is no rationale for a general elitism any longer. Now nearly anyone will be able to make a movie as crappy as the crap that has already been made on celluloid.

And student films shot on HD could have a greater potential to go to the recognized film fests and maybe even get picked up and shown on HBO or other cable channels.

The implications of having affordable HD are numerous.
 
Haakon said:
My goal with filmmaking is to make pieces I'm proud of, that say the things I want to say by painting the most beautiful and visually superior pictures possible that I'm capable of.
EXACTLY! Exactly my point as well! My personal filmmaking tools have always sucked! I'm a lighting cameraman with a passion for pretty pictures . . . FINALLY, I'll have a decent brush to paint them with!
 
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