I'm thinking about getting a reaL video camera

Zooms aren't amateurish. See 'Jaws,' 'Munich' and just about every live concert broadcast ever for verification of this. Consider that many see shallow depth of field as an amateurish crutch as well (who cares what's in the background? Blur it to mush!). Of course it isn't the tool or technique that's amateurish, just it's misuse or poor execution.
 
mcbob said:
Zooms aren't amateurish. See 'Jaws,' 'Munich' and just about every live concert broadcast ever for verification of this. Consider that many see shallow depth of field as an amateurish crutch as well (who cares what's in the background? Blur it to mush!). Of course it isn't the tool or technique that's amateurish, just it's misuse or poor execution.
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When was "Jaws" made? I think we've come alone way since then. Zooming is good for a home video with the family on vacation. However, I think the professional limits "Zooming", and prefers to set up there shots before hand. Yes, of course there is a place for "ZOOMING" watch some Rodger Corman films made back in the 60's or 70's.

Zooming should be the exception rather than the rule. So in this case one such as myself generalizes a bit, I hope the Zoomers forgive me!
 
A lot further than Jaws? Hm. No, not really... even that was harkening back to the 'zolly' Hitchcock used popularly in Vertigo. Popular films have somewhat regressed in story from those, one could argue. And you don't even have to go as far back as Corman films... Tarantino is a regular maxi-zoom dweebie.

It's not a rule, it's a tool... Just like shallow focus, clean high gain, flat picture profiles, variable frame rates... All just tools. Use them when they make sense.
 
I've never studied film making, unless participation on forums would be considered an education, it doesn't seem to terribly difficult. Things are difficult only when you have no interest in doing it. I do know that after living in these modern times it hard for me to watch old movies. I watch some films in the 70's that I say to myself..... yea, I could do that! The visual art of communication in these times are different. Most people have zero attention span, I see it in music too.

I actually can't watch movies any more, I've seen it all and usually get irritated with the assault on my intelligence, and the ridiculous manipulation into absurd fantasy detached from reality that somehow seems to cause subtle brain damage. I've not turned on a TV for a decade, and never go to the movies. I do however watch documentaries, that is the only thing that interests me...... content is king as they say. Perhaps the evolutionary progression of man doesn't account for sitting in front of the television and watching stupid movies for 60 years of your life....... it's like eating wonder bread for 60 years. My mind can't take it anymore. What is amazing is that people actually refer to movies as a reality to support real events in life.

Yesterday I had lunch in one of my favorite restaurants here in Santa Fe, Maria's, an historic old Hacienda. To my surprise there was a film crew in there shooting a movie. I sat and ate lunch sipping on a margarita or two, and observed a film crew in action...... there were probably at least 7 people involved in that shoot. They had two large shoulder held cameras, and one guy I talked to was walking around shooting B-roll with a 5D2.

I thought to myself, I'm glad I'm not a professional film maker...... way too much work! Now I understand why a few of you guys want a zoom rocker...... way easier than the effort involved in turning the zoom ring.
 
mcbob said:
Zooms aren't amateurish. See 'Jaws,' 'Munich' and just about every live concert broadcast ever for verification of this. Consider that many see shallow depth of field as an amateurish crutch as well (who cares what's in the background? Blur it to mush!). Of course it isn't the tool or technique that's amateurish, just it's misuse or poor execution.
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I agree; I think zooming is a viable tool and can be used instead of dollying if you want a slowly different effect. Zooming to me feels like you're looking closer at something static (because you are) and dollying feels like you're moving through space towards something. Check out Sleepy Hollow ep1 for some cool zooming.

And of course sometimes zooming is the only thing physically possible if you want to push in.
 
Nobody like the amateurish trombone zooming, but not everything is able to be preset and planned. How many times do we have to stop and reshoot when the actors move a little too far out of frame - but then the next lens has too wide a field of view so we have to crop, or we can't get quite in code enough? My theatre work would be useless without a zoom - you don't need to use it on shot, but it's a better tool for me. A bucket of primes would be great, but when things happen, a tweak of the zoom is solo much quicker than whipping off a lens and swapping it.

In fact, given a list of features not to lose, zooms would be right up there for me, and my shooting style. I remember, just, the BBC getting their first zooms 4:1, IIRC, and many cameramen hated them, but in a year or two, going back to a turret was something nobody wished to do.
 
paulears said:
Nobody like the amateurish trombone zooming, but not everything is able to be preset and planned. How many times do we have to stop and reshoot when the actors move a little too far out of frame - but then the next lens has too wide a field of view so we have to crop, or we can't get quite in code enough? My theatre work would be useless without a zoom - you don't need to use it on shot, but it's a better tool for me. A bucket of primes would be great, but when things happen, a tweak of the zoom is solo much quicker than whipping off a lens and swapping it.

In fact, given a list of features not to lose, zooms would be right up there for me, and my shooting style. I remember, just, the BBC getting their first zooms 4:1, IIRC, and many cameramen hated them, but in a year or two, going back to a turret was something nobody wished to do.
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I'm not knocking the use of a zoom to adjust the shot. What I was referring to was zooming in and out while filming, probably just what you are calling "trombone zooming". When I first started doing video I put one of my videos up on DV info forum (years ago) and was instantly criticized for zooming too much, and was told by quite a few guys it was passé. I guess I was traumatized, and never zoomed again..... funny how some things stick in your mind.

As I was conversing with a member of the camera crew yesterday shooting in the restaurant, I noticed his 5D2, I told him I was getting a C100, he told me so many movies are shot on the C300. So I guess all these guys filming on Canon C-series are crippled because these cameras don't have zoom rockers!

Once again, you guys have to take my comments within the context of this thread, I shoot indoors in a tight space as I said...... no need for zoom rockers here! However, I fully understand the need for rockers for different situations such as yours.
 
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